HC Deb 12 March 1964 vol 691 cc807-10
Mr. Brooke

I beg to move, in page 18, line 21, at the end, to insert: (4) Where the report of the person holding an inquiry under this section is not published, a summary of his findings and conclusions shall be made known by the Secretary of State so far as appears to him consistent with the public interest. This Amendment ensures that where the report of an inquiry under Clause 32 is not published, a summary of the findings and conclusions will be made known so far as is consistent with the public interest. In moving the Amendment, I am fulfilling an undertaking which I gave in Standing Committee to put down an Amendment to this effect. There was no dispute in Committee that it might on occasion be contrary to the public interest to publish the full report. There might be matters which concerned national security or crime prevention methods which, in the public interest—

Mr. Hale

Will the right hon. Gentleman please deal with one simple question? We know of the inhibition because of considerations of national security, but what on earth could happen in the borough of Oldham, with no civil defence or armed forces, which could affect national security as between the watch committee and the chief constable?

Mr. Brooke

What could happen in the borough of Oldham it is not for me to peer or probe into. We are, however, speaking for many boroughs and police areas. Indeed, if the House would be agreeable, perhaps it would be possible to consider also the identical Amendment in Schedule 6, page 45, line 40, which applies to Scotland.

Taking police forces as a whole, there may well be questions of national security involved in the reports of these inquiries. Much more common than that, however, would be the case where an unexpurgated edition of the report of the inquiry might well give invaluable information to criminals as to the crime prevention methods employed in a force.

The Amendment speaks of "findings and conclusions". I am well aware that in Committee I deprecated the use of the word "findings" which stood by itself in an Opposition Amendment. The difficulty about the word "findings" by itself was that it left uncertain whether it would solely refer to the conclusions of the report or whether the findings would need to be interpreted as giving some indication of the general course of argument which led the inquiry up to its conclusions. In the Amendment the House will see that we use the phrase: a summary of his findings and conclusions". In this context, there is no dubiety as to what "findings" means. It is quite clear that here the expression "findings" can be something more than the mere conclusions of the inquiry and yet is not synonomous with the whole report. I have done my best to find a form of words which will fulfil the undertaking I gave in Committee. I hope that this Amendment and the other Amendment to which I have referred will be acceptable to the House.

Mr. Deputy-Speaker

I must intervene here. I do not think we can suddenly introduce another Amendment into the discussion. These things should be agreed when we start.

Mr. Brooke

I apologise, Mr. Deputy-Speaker, but if it is not too late to agree on these identical words being introduced into difficult parts of the Bill, I think it would save another debate which would be over exactly the same ground.

Mr. Deputy-Speaker

If the House is agreeable.

Mr. S. Silverman

Would the Home Secretary say why there should not be in the Amendment a direction that the report shall be published, coupled with any limitation he thinks the interests of security might require? In the Clause as drafted there is no reference to publication of the report. The subsection merely says that where the report is not published there shall be publication of certain parts or a summary of it, for which everyone would be grateful, but it leaves solely at the discretion of the Home Secretary without any guidance at all the circumstances in which the whole of the report is not published. The whole purpose of such an inquiry would be defeated if it were held in secret and the report not published at all. Surely there ought to be some Amendment, perhaps not here and now but at a later stage, to require the Home Secretary to publish it unless for stated reasons in his discretion he thinks it better not to do so.

Miss Bacon

I am pleased that the right hon. Gentleman has moved this Amendment, even though my hon. Friend the Member for Nelson and Colne (Mr. S. Silverman) thinks that perhaps it does not go far enough. What pleases me most about it is that the Home Secretary has reassured me in thinking that my language is not at fault. In Committee, when I moved an Amendment, I used the word "findings", and he said a little more about that than he has said tonight. He said: I would be happy to accept it. I am, however, advised that the word 'findings' is ambiguous … I could not accept the word 'findings' because it might be held, so I am advised, to cover every word of the report."—[OFFICIAL REPORT, Standing Committee D, 23rd January, 1964; cc. 437–8.] In Committee I wanted to ensure that we did not have a report made in private and no one would know what had happened. Perhaps the right hon. Gentleman can reassure my hon. Friend that we shall get an adequate summary of the findings and conclusions and not an inadequate report of what has happened at an inquiry held in private.

Mr. Brooke

That is the purpose. The words "made known" are used instead of the word "published" because I am advised that if "published" were there it would mean that it would have to be published and put on sale at the Stationery Office, whereas it may be a purely local report of limited interest and it might be desirable to make it known to the local Press and all concerned without the formality of having it published as a White Paper by the Stationery Office.

But there is no intention whatever of concealment. I entirely agree with what has been said by the hon. Lady and by the hon. Member for Nelson and Colne (Mr. S. Silverman); there is no point in having an inquiry of this kind unless its findings and conclusions are made known, and it is certainly intended in the normal case that the whole of the report would be made available. It is only for the kind of reasons which were canvassed in Standing Committee and which received general assent—that there might be certain passages which, if it were to be a completely frank and candid report, could not in the public interest be made known to everybody—that it seemed to be desirable to have some provision in the Bill for a summary to be made known.

Mr. Hale

May I in a single sentence join the universal acclamation of the right hon. Gentleman the Home Secretary for having a Clause which provides that the British public, who pay, heaven knows, thousands of millions of pounds in taxes every year for these things, will if the Home Secretary sees fit, be afforded some relevant information, accurate or inaccurate, at the appropriate moment, provided that the matter does not affect the national security, the public interest or Crown Privilege or is not an obscene publication.

Amendment agreed to.