HC Deb 11 March 1964 vol 691 cc422-4
22. Mr. W. Hamilton

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland what consultations he has had with the University Grants Committee on the siting of the proposed new university in Scotland; and what steps he intends to take to speed up the decision.

23. Mr. Willis

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland what consultations he has had with the University Grants Committee concerning the siting of the proposed new university in Scotland.

27. Mr. Hoy

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland, in view of the delay in announcing the site of the new university in Scotland, what information he has received from the University Grants Committee about the date when this decision will be published.

41. Mr. Rankin

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland what communications he has now had from the University Grants Committee on the site of the new university for Scotland.

Mr. Noble

The University Grants Committee has had an exploratory discussion with my departments about some of the factors to be taken into account in considering the location of the new university. As regards the date of any decision, I would refer the hon. Members to the Answer given yesterday by my right hon. and learned Friend the Lord President of the Council.

Mr. Hamilton

When is the right hon. Gentleman going to get out of the situation of kowtowing to the English Ministers, whether it is the Lord President of the Council or the Minister of Transport? Does he agree that the implication of the Answer given yesterday was that there is no sense of urgency in this matter, and, if he does, what is he himself doing to inject this sense of urgency into the U.G.C. and others concerned?

Mr. Noble

I do not believe that there was any implication in the Answer given by my right hon. Friend yesterday that there was no sense of urgency. As I understood it, he said that it was more important to get the right decision than to rush the matter and perhaps get the wrong one. I am perfectly certain that a decision, and the right decision, will be taken before many months have passed.

Mr. Willis

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that yesterday we were told that the University Grants Committee had a number of other things to do before it could visit these sites? If the University Grants Committee is not big enough to get on with urgent work urgently, should not the right hon. Gentleman make representations to the appropriate quarter to get the Universities Grants Committee enlarged so that this work can be done quickly?

Mr. Noble

These are questions for my right hon. and learned Friend. I am very willing to discuss the matter with him and see how quickly this can take place.

Mr. Hoy

Is the Secretary of State aware that if I had wanted to know what the Lord President of the Council had said I would have put down a Question to him? I want to know what consultation the right hon. Gentleman has had with the University Grants Committee, and whether it has given him any indication of a date for the new University of Scotland. After all, the right hon. Gentleman is Secretary of State for Scotland.

Mr. Noble

I am well aware of the truth of the hon. Member's last remark. I am also aware that it is not unusual, at Question Time, to try to spread my responsibilities somewhat wider than they already are. But, as I said in answer to the Question, I have not had any personal contact with the University Grants Committee, although it has been having discussions with my Department.

Mr. Hoy

Why has the right hon. Gentleman had no personal contact?

Mr. Rankin

Will the right hon. Gentleman give us an assurance that in Scottish matters he is not subordinate to the Lord President of the Council and Minister for Science? Before he does so, when he considers the question of fixing the site, will he bear in mind that besides being a point of great academic growth the university will also be a point of great industrial growth? Will he keep that fact in mind when he is urging the matter on the U.G.C.?

Mr. Noble

I appreciate the force of the request contained in the second part of the hon. Member's supplementary question. As to the first part, the House knows the division of responsibility between my right hon. Friend and myself in connection with universities.

Mr. Willis

You get on with the job.

Mr. Ross

If there is one thing that the House does not know it is exactly that. Does not the right hon. Gentleman think that it is about time that he took personal action in this matter? It may be that in respect of other parts of the country the U.G.C. has other important matters to consider, but on the question of universities in Scotland the most urgent requirement now is to take the first step of locating the site for this university, and then to get on with the job.

Mr. Noble

The question is being looked at urgently. That is why my Department is in touch with the U.G.C.