Vote 8. Lands, Buildings and Works (Hansard, 9 March 1964)

§ Mr. Hendry
During the last week or so most hon. Members have received representations from Devon about land being spoiled by being used as training areas. It makes me wonder whether my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for War is as yet aware of the fact that there are parts of the United Kingdom other than the south of England which are suitable for military training. I have raised this matter before. In Scotland there are many tracts of country which are suitable for military training. My right hon. Friend undertook to look into the matter, but nothing seems to have been done about it.
6.15 p.m.
I also remind my hon. Friend that Scotland is probably the best recruiting area in the whole of the United Kingdom. The Highland Regiments—I had the honour to belong to one—are an 93 outstanding example. As Scotland contributes to the personnel of the Army, it is only fair that the Army should consider using Scotland for training these people, because our soldiers leave and we do not see them again.
We in Scotland seem to be losing our contact with the Army. A number of our towns were once garrison towns. I mention, for example, Glasgow, which now appears to have no regular connection with the Army, Stirling, which for hundreds of years was a garrison town, and Perth. Some time ago I had some correspondence with my right hon. Friend about the use of Fort George, but I have heard nothing about that since, and I should like to hear from my hon. Friend what the War Office intends to do about using part of Scotland as a training area and about maintaining its valuable connection with the Army, because if we lose this connection the value of Scotland as a recruiting area will diminish.
Scotland is a development area. Other Government Departments are doing their bit to bring assistance and money to those parts of the United Kingdom which a re in need of development, and I should like my hon. Friend's assurance that this aspect is not being forgotten by the War Office.

§ Dr. Alan Glyn
I understand that under Subhead B it is possible to raise the question of married quarters. I hope that my hon. Friend will take into consideration what was said during the debate the other day about providing married quarters. In particular, I should like an answer about the possibility of money being expended to build married quarters on the existing barrack sites in Germany. I realise that there are many difficulties involved, but on two occasions I have suggested that this is the easier way of providing married accommodation because it would avoid an additional load on the West German building industry and would also avoid the difficulty of having to get local planning permission.
Hon. Members on both sides of the Committee regard the provision of married quarters as one of the most important factors not only in attracting men to the forces but of keeping them in the Service, and I hope that my hon. Friend will answer this point 94 which I have raised on three occasions but to which I have not as yet had an answer.

§ Mr. Simon Wingfield Digby (Dorset, West)
Under Subhead D money is to be set aside for purposes which include forestry. In the past, forest lands held by various Service Departments have tended to suffer because thinnings have been neglected, and so on. I should have thought that it would have been the policy of the War Office to make over as much of this land as possible to the Forestry Commission, which is in a better position to deal with it. Can my hon. Friend tell me whether, on the land held by the War Office, thinnings are being attended to, and whether the land is being managed according to the best principles of forestry?

§ Mr. Kirk
My hon. Friend the Member for Aberdeenshire, West (Mr. Hendry) raised the question of the use of Scotland as a training area. He said that Scotland had had a close connection with the Army in the past, and that of course is true. It is equally true that the Highland area is one of our best recruiting areas, and that the Highland Brigade is one of the best recruiting brigades, and we are, of course, anxious to do nothing which might weaken the connection between Scotland and the Army.
The difficulty is that the large open tracts in Scotland do not provide good going for tanks, and are therefore difficult to use as tank ranges. Secondly, and possibly more important, for obvious reasons, the Strategic Reserve is concentrated in the South rather than in the North. It is therefore difficult to use the open land in Scotland for the type of training which would benefit the strategic reserve. I will certainly bear in mind what he said. If we can see any way of increasing the use of Scotland for training purposes we shall certainly consider it. It is surprising to find anyone offering us training land in this country, and I shall be glad to see if there is anything that we can do in the matter.
My hon. Friend the Member for Clapham (Dr. Alan Glyn) asked whether we could use barracks sites in Germany for the building of married quarters. He is probably aware that the building 95 of these quarters in Germany at the moment works on a so-called "multiple hiring" system, the idea being that if and when we leave Germany those quarters will become available for purely commercial exploitation inside Germany. That is why it would be difficult to erect married quarters inside the barracks themselves.

§ Dr. Glyn
Could not we use portable homes?

§ Mr. Kirk
We are using mobile homes to a certain extent, but there is a limit to the number of sites that we can obtain. The preparation of sites for caravans and mobile homes is extremely complicated and difficult—much more difficult than might be expected. It means a large capital outlay for something which we may be removing fairly quickly, and it would be difficult to put them inside the barracks.
As for forestry, the forestry element is run by men who are trained by the Forestry Commission. We keep in close touch with the Commission and take its advice on every relevant occasion.