HC Deb 09 June 1964 vol 696 cc211-2
6. Mr. Frank Allaun

asked the Minister of Housing and Local Government and Minister for Welsh Affairs how many houses were improved with standard grants in the last 12 months to a convenient date by installing baths or inside lavatories; how many of these were made to private landlords and owner-occupiers, respectively; and if, in view of the fact that almost four million households are revealed by the census in England, Scotland and Wales as being without a bath, he is satisfied with this rate of progress.

The Joint Parliamentary Secretary to the Ministry of Housing and Local Government (Mr. F. V. Corfield)

Of 38,500 baths and 43,600 water closets installed with the help of standard grants in the 12 months to 31st March last. 37,000 baths and 41,000 water closets were in privately owned houses. My right hon. Friend cannot say how many of these were owner-occupied and how many were let; but it is likely that some three-quarters were owner-occupied. Much progress has been made in modernising our older houses. For example, the 1961 census returns showed that 3½ million more households had the exclusive use of a fixed bath than in 1951. But my right hon. Friend wants to see faster progress, and the new provisions in the Housing Bill will help to this end.

Mr. Allaun

Is the hon. Gentleman aware that these figures show that less than one in four of the applications come from private landlords and that at this rate it will be the next century before many houses are provided with a bath? Is he also aware that many of us do not believe that the Government's new Housing Bill will do the job, and that we feel that the only effective solution is to have area improvement schemes backed by compulsory purchase orders where required?

Mr. Corfield

The hon. Gentleman is fully aware that the Bill provides for area improvement schemes with the necessary degree of compulsion. I would stress that the true test of this progress is the number of houses remaining which are capable of being improved. Only by comparing the rate of improvement against that figure is a true picture obtained.

Mr. Graham Page

Is my hon. Friend aware that to say that only one in four of these applications come from privately let houses is a distortion of the figures, and that very many more houses are being improved without the use of the standard grant? Is it not true that about three times as many are being improved without the grant as with the grant?

Mr. Corfield

My hon. Friend's figures are probably right, but I have no means of checking them [Laughter.] We know that a very large number of houses are being improved without grant. The House should realise that the Question relates purely to standard grants, and that the very much larger number of discretionary grants automatically means that many more houses will have baths at the end of the improvement.

Mrs. Slater

In view of the appalling figures disclosed in the Sunday Times about Aberdeen, does not the hon. Gentleman think that there is a need— [Interruption.] It is no good the Minister shaking his head; the facts were given there. When one in six people are sharing toilets, does not the hon. Gentleman think that even from the point of view of health the Government should put very much greater effort into this scheme than they are doing now?

Mr. Corfield

The hon. Lady knows perfectly well that my right hon. Friend attaches enormous importance to the scheme. She will also be aware that I cannot answer a specific question in relation to Scotland.