HC Deb 04 June 1964 vol 695 cc1245-7
Q4. Mr. Lipton

asked the Prime Minister whether the public speech of the Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster near Devizes on 12th May on pension increases represents the policy of Her Majesty's Government.

The Prime Minister

Yes, Sir.

Mr. Lipton

Will the Prime Minister have a look at that part of the speech of the Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster in which he said that the Government had budgeted for further pension increases? Would the right hon. Gentle- man be good enough to say what budgetary provision has been made, what further pension increases the noble Lord was talking about and when these further pension increases will be put into effect?

The Prime Minister

I do not think that I would give this information to the hon. Member. He knows quite well that we said at the last election that we would ensure that pensioners continued—[Interruption.] This is what the hon. Member is asking about; he might listen to the answer. We said that pensioners would continue to share in the good things which a steadily expanding economy will bring. That applies to the future as to the past.

Earl of Dalkeith

Is my right hon. Friend aware that in this same speech reference was made to the Opposition's pension scheme? Has my right hon. Friend any details of the cost of this scheme in terms of enormously increased contributions or higher taxation?

The Prime Minister

I do not think that it is for me to answer that, but I remember the speech of the hon. Lady the Member for Lanarkshire, North (Miss Herbison) and I have refreshed my memory of what she told the Labour Party Conference. She said that the Labour Party's scheme was based on detailed and rigorous, technical, financial and actuarial advice". I take it that hon. Members opposite would like to see the figures as much as we should.

Mr. Callaghan

Does not the Prime Minister realise that this hint was given on the eve of the poll in the Devizes by-election? Will he please answer this question: is it true that budgetary provision has been made for further pension increases? If so, is he holding them back for electoral reasons until we get nearer the election? Would it not be a very cynical device on the part of the Government, who have already raised the money in the Budget for this purpose, to withhold paying the additional pensions to which the Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster referred?

The Prime Minister

I think that the hon. Member will find that we do not need any cynical device to win the next election.

Mr. Callaghan

Will the Prime Minister address his mind to the question? Has there ever been an occasion when a senior Minister has said, "We have budgeted for further pension increases"? Cannot the Prime Minister tell us whether this is so or whether it was merely a device for getting a few extra votes at Devizes? If it is true, when will the Government pay the increase?

Hon. Members

Answer.

The Prime Minister

I am not in the least reluctant to answer. The whole of our economic policy is directed to accumulating wealth—[HON. MEMBERS: "Answer."]—I will answer in my own way—which we then intend to share with the old-age pensioners and others with fixed incomes in this country. Provided our economic policies proceed, we certainly shall in future, as we have in the past, be able to increase old-age pensions.

Mr. H. Wilson

Will the Prime Minister now say whether he agrees with the statement that budgetary provision has been made, or will he stand straight up and repudiate his right hon. Friend?

The Prime Minister

I am glad to see the right hon. Gentleman back. [HON. MEMBERS: "Answer."] I gave the answer in my original reply. It is, "Yes, Sir.".

Mr. Lipton

On a point of order. In view of the completely unsatisfactory nature of the reply, I beg to give notice that I will raise this matter on the Adjournment.