HC Deb 21 July 1964 vol 699 cc437-40

11.15 p.m.

Mr. Millan

I beg to move, in page 2, line 29, to leave out "interim".

Mr. Deputy-Speaker

It will probably be convenient to discuss, at the same time, the Amendment in line 30, to leave out "interim".

Mr. Millan

Yes, Mr. Deputy-Speaker; the next Amendment goes with this one.

This Clause is concerned with a new power to the courts to grant aliment. I think that I am right in saying that the present position in Scotland has been that there has not been a single separate right to grant aliment. It has been necessary for an action for aliment to be attached to some other kind of action, so that one could in fact have an action for aliment with adherence or for aliment and separation, but it was not possible to have an action for aliment per se.

This has given rise to a rather unsatisfactory situation where, particularly in an interim period before a deserted wife, for example, has raised some kind of permanent action, it would have been desirable for her to get some kind of interim payment from her husband.

I am, therefore, again agreed in principle that this Clause is desirable, that we should introduce this remedy of aliment per se without attaching it to any other kind of permanent action. But it did strike me when this Clause was going through Committee—and I raised the point then—that it was rather an important innovation in our Scottish law and that we were entitled to be absolutely clear as to exactly what we were doing.

I therefore raised the point I have just mentioned, whether this was a completely new proposal or not. The hon. Gentleman the Member for Aberdeenshire, West (Mr. Hendry) then gave me an inaccurate answer which was partly, or perhaps wholly, corrected by the hon. Member for Dumfries (Mr. Anderson), who pointed out that this was, in fact, an entirely new remedy and not necessarily a remedy for aliment in anticipation of a subsequent permanent action either for separation or divorce.

If that is so, we really have got a very considerable innovation in the law of Scotland, because we now have got a provision which provides for permanent aliment without the pursuer taking any further action either for divorce or for judicial separation.

It seems to me to be misleading to describe this as interim aliment. It is not at all. It is simply aliment—it is permanent aliment, not temporary aliment at all.

I have a letter from the hon. Gentleman for Aberdeenshire, West in which he admits this. He says: I think that I may have been slightly misleading in suggesting that aliment under this Clause was temporary pending some more permanent form of action. He goes on: There will be other cases where no such substantive action will be taken and the award will remain in force until desertion ceases or just cause for living in separation is removed; that is of genuine reform of the other spouse's conduct. But, of course, the other spouse may never reform at all, and, therefore, the interim aliment becomes permanent aliment.

The hon. Gentleman tells me in this letter, in language which I do not pretend to understand, particularly at this time of night, that it is still necessary to call permanent aliment interim aliment because of some intricacies in the law of Scotland. I find it very difficult to accept that. The purpose of my Amendment is simply to leave the word "aliment" without qualifying it by either "temporary", "permanent", or "interim". If we remove the word "interim" from this Clause we have got a Clause which is no longer misleading. It may be slightly misleading, but slight ambiguity seems to me preferable to a completely misleading clause, which we have got at the present time.

In spite of these difficulties and intricacies in the law of Scotland, I see no reason why we should not accept this Amendment.

Mr. Hendry

The hon. Member for Glasgow, Craigton (Mr. Millan) has given a very fair resumé of the Clause and the intentions of the Amendments. I cannot accept the Amendments, for the very good reason that the aliment with which we are concerned is, indeed, interim. Aliment of this sort will be awarded when the relations between the parties are unresolved. The award may last a very long time, perhaps for ever, but the aliment is interim in that it lasts only until the relations between the parties are resolved by some other action, or some other event.

For instance, parties might be living in separation and aliment might be paid, but the separation might be resolved by an action for divorce on the ground of desertion. It might be resolved by reconciliation, which is very desirable. It might be resolved by the pursuer in the action for interim aliment refusing a genuine and responsible offer by the guilty party to adhere.

This is certainly interim aliment and it is very desirable to call it that and to distinguish it from aliment of other sorts which are perfectly clearly and distinctly understood in Scottish legal practice. I am sorry that at an earlier stage I may have unwittingly misled the hon. Gentleman. It was certainly unintentional and I have done my best to put it right. I hope that I have persuaded him that this aliment will be interim.

Amendment negatived.

11.22 p.m.

Mr. Hendry

I beg to move, That the Bill be now read the Third time.

I hope that the House will forgive me if I do not give a long dissertation on the Bill. It had no less than 15½ hours' discussion in Committee and it has had further discussion tonight. It clears up a number of anomalies and difficulties in the law of Scotland and introduces a valuable new feature to facilitate reconciliation where a marriage is in jeopardy. If the Bill does nothing more than save one marriage, it will have been worth all the trouble taken with it.

Question put and agreed to.

Bill accordingly read the Third time and passed, with Amendments.