HC Deb 14 July 1964 vol 698 cc1010-2
19. Mr. Frank Allaun

asked the Minister of Housing and Local Government and Minister for Welsh Affairs in how many houses in Great Britain and in Salford, owner-occupied and landlord-owned, respectively, baths, inside water-closets, and hot water systems have been installed by means of standard improvement grants since the scheme started.

Mr. Corfield

In Great Britain up to 31st March last 139,500 privately owned houses were provided with baths, 131,000 with water-closets and 153,000 with hot water systems, with the help of standard grants. For Salford the figures were 179 baths, 171 water-closets and 170 hot water systems. I cannot say how many of these houses in Great Britain and in Salford were owner-occupied, or let; but about three-quarters of all standard grants to private owners were for owner-occupied houses.

Mr. Allaun

Are not those numbers pitifully inadequate compared with the one-in-four families living in houses without a bath, as revealed by the latest Government figures, and does not that fact reflect a very odd kind of affluent society? In view of this, will the Parliamentary Secretary write to local authorities asking them to submit to him their proposals for area improvement schemes and telling them that there are compulsory measures available to them where landlords are obdurate?

Mr. Corfield

The hon. Gentleman knows that the Housing Bill is about to complete its stages through Parliament. There will be circulars issued in that connection, but I will see that his point is borne in mind. However, I would remind him that the best test is to judge the number of improvements against the number of houses capable of being improved; and in the Salford area, for example, the existing slum clearance programme covers 19,000 dwellings, which is very little short of the total number of houses in the borough which do not have baths, and is very much in excess of those without other facilities.

Mr. Gower

Apart from houses which have been improved with the aid of grants, has my hon. Friend any figures to show the considerable number of houses which in some areas have been improved without grants but by the owners themselves?

Mr. Corfield

I have no exact figures but I have no doubt that a considerable number have been so improved.

Mrs. Slater

Does not the Parliamentary Secretary know that in many local authority areas—I cannot speak for Salford but I certainly can speak for Stoke-on-Trent—there are a large number of houses with 15 and even 30 years life left to them yet where the figures of improvements are appalling, showing that landlords are not measuring up to the provisions of the Act? Since landlords are now able to get greater assistance than was available to them previously, what pressure is the Minister bringing to bear on them to see that they improve their houses rather than try to get their tenants out so that they can sell their property at inflated prices?

Mr. Corfield

The hon. Lady must have been absent for the greater part of this Session—[HON. MEMBERS: "Oh."]—or she would know about the Measure which has as a major purpose the giving of compulsory powers to local authorities to force landlords to make these improvements.

Mrs. Slater

On a point of order. I ask the Parliamentary Secretary to withdraw that remark, because if any hon. Member has a record of attending this House and Standing Committees and taking part in our deliberations, I should have pride of place on the list.

Hon. Members

Withdraw.

Mr. Speaker

It is not out of order.

Several Hon. Members rose

—

Mr. Corfield

I am perfectly prepared to withdraw. I think I am entitled to remind the hon. Lady that she must know about the provisions of this Measure, on which we have spent many hours, and the fact that those provisions will do what she is asking.

Several Hon. Members rose

—

Mr. Speaker

We must get on.

Mr. Allaun

On a different point of order, Mr. Speaker. I think that the Parliamentary Secretary made a mistake when reading one of his answers. He just told me that there are 1,900 houses in Salford without baths. He must know that the figure is over 30,000. He must, therefore, have made a mistake.

Mr. Speaker

That is not a point of order. I cannot correct Ministers' answers in relation to the facts.

33. Mrs. Slater

asked the Minister of Housing and Local Government and Minister for Welsh Affairs how many houses in Stoke-on-Trent, owner-occupied and landlord-owned, respectively, have received improvement grants since 1949.

Mr. Corfield

In Stoke-on-Trent 3,720 improvement grants were made to private owners from 1949 to 31st May, 1964. Of the 2,538 made since 1960, when separate records began to be kept, 2,220 were to owner-occupiers, 318 to other private owners.

Mrs. Slater

Does not the hon. Gentleman now realise that this figure is much below what it ought to be? Does he realise that we are not merely concerned with what will be the law after this Parliament but with the law as it is now? Does he consider that 7 per cent. of tenanted houses is sufficient improvement? Cannot he do something between now and October to urge these people to get the job done?

Mr. Corfield

No, I do not consider it sufficient, and that is why we put the provision into the Housing Bill, but the hon. Lady will appreciate that one cannot use the power of the Bill until it becomes an Act.