HC Deb 08 July 1964 vol 698 cc403-5
34. Mr. Watkins

asked the Minister of Aviation when flights to break the sound barrier will take place in Mid-Wales and southern Breconshire; and whether he will give directions that such experiments will not be in the vicinity of schools, hospitals, old people's homes and places where elderly people and children are congregated.

Mr. Marten

It is not possible to state precisely when these flights will take place. Flight paths are very carefully chosen so as to cause the minimum of disturbance and the aircraft are flown supersonically at high altitudes only. We have in the past had no complaints from schools, hospitals or old people's homes in this area.

Mr. Watkins

May I ask the hon. Gentleman whether he will give greater consideration to this matter because of the protests which have come in since my Question was tabled? There is widespread objection to this in the part of the Principality involved in these flights. Surely the hon. Gentleman could give greater consideration to what I have put down in my Question?

Mr. Marten

We always consider what the hon. Gentleman puts in Questions, but I am afraid that these flights must go on.

Mr. Speir

Can my hon. Friend say what he considers to be the correct altitude for supersonic flights? What does he mean by a "high" altitude?

Mr. Marten

Normally above 30,000 feet.

Mr. C. Hughes

Can the hon. Gentleman say whether the Minister for Welsh Affairs and the Council for Wales were consulted before this decision was taken?

Mr. Marten

I cannot say offhand.

35. Mr. Watkins

asked the Minister of Aviation whether, in view of the representations he received last year on aircraft breaking the sound barrier within the Counties of Brecon and Radnor, he will make arrangements to give notice to local authorities and in the local Press when such overland flights are to take place during the next 12 weeks.

Mr. Marten

As the timing of individual flights has to be arranged at very short notice, it would not be practicable to do this.

Mr. Watkins

May I ask the hon. Gentleman whether he will take a leaf out of the War Office's book? When the firing of ordinary guns takes place on Sennybridge range, notice is given to farmers. Surely the Ministry could give notice in the local Press of these flights? The information is required for the next 12 weeks. The Ministry should know whether these flights are to take place during the third week, the fifth week, or the seventh week, and surely it could give prior notice to local authorities and to the Press?

Mr. Marten

The firing of guns of that nature is simpler than flying supersonic jet aircraft because we are concerned with aircraft weapons, ground instrumentation, and the preparation of the aircraft itself, in addition to the weather, and sometimes these flights have to be made at a few hours' notice. But if the hon. Gentleman has any further cases like the one he had before, concerning one of his constituents, Mrs. Betty Sannon, we shall certainly do our best to meet her wishes about not frightening her pony.

Mr. S. O. Davies

Do we understand that the Minister and the Ministry are turning a contemptuous, deaf ear to the protests and appeals made by responsible individuals and responsible bodies in Wales, in particular the fanning and agricultural communities? Has not the hon. Gentleman received plenty of information which proves that these supersonic explosions have caused considerable harm to agricultural life in parts of Wales?

Mr. Marten

I think that the hon. Gentleman is misinformed about this. Over the last two years we have had 26 claims from the whole of Britain. Of these about half have been admitted as being due to supersonic bangs and £600 has been paid in compensation.