§ 8. Mr. Stonehouseasked the Lord President of the Council and Minister for Science if he will institute independent inquiries into the collegiate structure in the universities of Oxford and Cambridge.
§ 10. Mr. Swinglerasked the Lord President of the Council and Minister for Science what action he is taking on recommendation 146 of the Robbins Report which proposes independent inquiries into the anomalies at the universities of Oxford and Cambridge under certain circumstances; and what steps he will take to deal with the problem of higher emoluments for teaching staffs at Oxford and Cambridge, referred to in paragraph 542 of the Report.
§ Mr. HoggAs the Robbins Report recognised, problems of internal re-organisation are being considered, and solutions sought, within the universities of Oxford and Cambridge themselves, and the Report did not recommend, nor, in my view, would it be proper for me to initiate, independent inquiries at this stage. The whole question of academic salaries is at present before the National Incomes Commission, and I do not propose to comment until its report is available and I have had the opportunity to consider it.
§ Mr. StonehouseDoes the right hon. and learned Gentleman bear in mind the fact that the Robbins Committee commented in paragraph 687 that continuance of this practice would endanger the whole system of higher education in this country? If Oxford and Cambridge are not prepared to act quickly, what steps does he intend to take?
§ Mr. SwinglerWhat is not hypothetical is whether the Minister—[HON. MEMBERS: "Question."] Does the right hon. Gentleman agree that the Robbins Report said that Oxford and Cambridge should no longer have a privileged status 185 amongst universities and, in particular, should no longer continue to cream off talent by offering higher emoluments to the staff? Does he agree with that judgment? If he does, can we expect him to take some action based on that agreement?
§ Mr. SpeakerMr. Swingler.
§ Mr. SwinglerOn a point of order—
§ Mr. SpeakerOrder. I thought I heard the hon. Member for Newcastle-under-Lyme (Mr. Swingler) addressing me in the midst of that noise.
§ Mr. SwinglerI merely wish to point out—
§ Mr. SpeakerOrder. The hon. Member is perfectly in order. He is addressing me and not the Lord President.
§ Mr. SwinglerThank you, Mr. Speaker. I merely wish to point out that the Minister said that my supplementary question did not arise out of the Question on the Order Paper. That, perhaps, is because it was the Question on the Order Paper that the right hon. and learned Gentleman declined to answer. Would you permit me to repeat my supplementary question, which was whether the right hon. and learned Gentleman accepts the recommendation of the Robbins Committee?
§ Mr. SpeakerThe answer is, yes. I called the hon. Gentleman for a further supplementary question, which he has really already asked.
Mr. J. T. PriceOn a point of order, Mr. Speaker. When the Robbins Report was published the Government said that they accepted it. That statement was given widespread publicity. Now, when they are asked to itemise it, they say that the question does not arise. Is it in order for Ministers to 186 exercise this device in order to avoid legitimate criticism in the House?
§ Mr. SpeakerWhat the hon. Member for Westhoughton (Mr. J. T. Price) says does not give rise to a point of order. The position is that the hon. Member for Newcastle-under-Lyme has not had an answer to his supplementary question.
§ Mr. HoggThe original Question was whether I would institute independent inquiries. I have answered it.
§ Mr. CrossmanThe question we should like the Minister to answer is this. We are all aware that the Robbins Committee has not demanded an immediate inquiry but has said that unless the universities speedily remove these anomalies it wants an inquiry. Does the Minister accept the Robbins Report in that form?
§ Mr. CrossmanIs the right hon. Gentleman aware that there is nothing hypothetical about asking whether the Government accept a particular recommendation of the Robbins Report in the precise wording of the Report? That was what I asked as a supplementary question to these two Questions.
§ Mr. HoggThe Robbins Committee made a recommendation based on a certain hypothesis; that is what makes the hon. Gentleman's question hypothetical.
§ Mr. CrossmanThe question is a perfectly direct one. Does the Minister accept the recommendation of the Robbins Report in the form in which the Robbins Committee published it or not? That is not a hypothetical question but a direct question about a paragraph in the Report.
§ Mr. Crossmanrose—
§ Mr. SpeakerOrder. I hope the House will help me. We shall not make any progress with so much noise.
§ Mr. StonehouseOn a point of order, Mr. Speaker. In view of the grossly unsatisfactory nature of the Minister's 187 reply, I beg to give notice that I shall raise the matter on the Adjournment as soon as I can.