HC Deb 20 January 1964 vol 687 cc701-6
28. Mr. Millan

asked the Minister of Labour the ratio of wholly unemployed girls to unfilled vacancies for girls in Scotland and the Midlands at the latest convenient date

33. Mr. Ross asked

the Minister of Labour the ratio of wholly unemployedboys to unfilled vacancies in Scotland and the Midlands at the latest convenient date

Mr. Godber

In December, for every 100 wholly unemployed girls there were 125 unfilled vacancies in Scotland and 1,019 in the Midlands region. For every 100 wholly unemployed boys, there were 44 vacancies in Scotland and 510 in the Midlands region.

Mr. Millan

Do not these figures demonstrate that there is need for a very great increase in employment opportunities for young people in Scotland? Will the Minister draw this to the attention of his colleagues, and particularly the Postmaster-General, who is considering the resiting of the Post Office Savings Bank, which, if it came to Scotland, would help to solve this unemployment problem among young people?

Mr. Godber

Yes. My right hon. Friends are very much aware of the needs of the area. That was one reason for the production of the special plan for central Scotland. Although in relation to both boys and girls the position is, I fully agree, very unsatisfactory, it is not nearly as bad as it was a year ago.

Miss Herbison

The Minister must realise that the figures which he has just given are disturbing and that in Scotland there is grave fear that if the Government continue in office, these young people, who ought to be in work, may never be in work. Can the Minister announce any further steps which he is taking—for instance, by bringing Government orders to Scotland—to ensure that more of our young people find work?

Mr. Godber

I certainly do not accept the gloomy forecast in the first part of the hon. Lady's supplementary question. I have indicated the Government's concern in relation to this whole matter. As I have said, my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State is very concerned, too, and that is one reason for the general plan which was produced some little while ago.

Mr. Ross

Is the Minister aware that no general plan was produced and that it was a plan for only one part of the area? In regard to Question No. 33, we are dealing with—when the figures were taken—over 3,000 boys under the age of 18. Is the Minister aware that since that time there has been another batch of school-leavers and the figure today would be very much higher, but the chances are that the number of vacancies would be no higher? What are the Government doing to effect dramatic changes in this situation of continuing gravity for these young people?

Mr. Godber

As to the first point raised by the hon. Member, it is true that the plan is for central Scotland, but this should produce material benefits over the whole area, as the hon. Member must realise. I have said that the figures give concern, but it would be quite wrong to say that there is not a definite improvement. Although the figure is over 3,000, a year ago it was 3,960 as against 3,050 now. This is a substantial improvement, which should not be ignored, although, obviously, we must not let up in our efforts to improve matters.

Mr. K. Lewis

Is my right hon. Friend satisfied that young people in Scotland are made fully aware of the fact that they can obtain certain travel facilities and concessions through his Ministry, and that whilst one would not accept this as a long-term solution, in the short term more of these young people might be assisted to come down to the Midlands? Further, is my right hon. Friend satisfied that the travel concessions given by his Ministry are adequate for this purpose?

Mr. Godber

These provisions are made. Where the conditions are right, and the parents and young people are willing, we will help in any way desired. I am, however, aware of the feelings against this practice in Scotland and for that reason I have not pressed it.

Mr. Prentice

The Minister keeps referring to comparisons with a year ago. Does he expect this to give the House any satisfaction in view of the abnormal situation with the weather and other factors a year ago? Would he not agree that the present figures are far worse than the post-war average and in most parts of the country worse than in any other post-war year except 12 months ago?

Mr. Godber

No. It is quite fair to draw the comparison, as I have done, with a year ago, because that was before the bad weather had effect. These are figures for mid-December. The bad weather did not begin to have its effect until we had the January figures. It is not unreasonable, therefore, to show that the underlying trend is definitely better than it was a year ago.

29. Mr. W. Hamilton

asked the Minister of Labour the ratio of wholly unemployed men of 18 years and over to unfilled vacancies for men in Scotland and the Midlands at the latest convenient date.

Mr. Godber

In December, 19 to 1 and 3 to 1, respectively.

Mr. Hamilton

Does not that Answer emphasise once more the great gulf economically between the situation in Scotland and the Midlands and, no doubt, other parts of the country? Can the Minister guarantee that the steps that the Government have now taken or contemplate taking will lead to a substantial reduction of the gulf as between Scotland and the more prosperous areas of the country?

Mr. Godber

I cannot, of course, give a guarantee, but it is right to say that the hon. Member has chosen a disparity between an area where a tremendous boom is taking place and an area which does not have a boom. We are trying to even up the balance. We are doing it in the various ways which I have announced and the advance factory projects are beginning to have a real effect.

Miss Lee

Is the Minister aware that the lack of housing in the Midlands is serious and that although people there are willing to have increased employment opportunities, the Government must be careful to ensure that they both ease the employment situation in Scotland and, at the same time, do not bring young people away from their homes unless there is adequate and a proper type of accommodation for them?

Mr. Godber

That is a perfectly fair point and I accept it.

30. Miss Herbison

asked the Minister of Labour what percentage of the Great Britain total of men of 20 years and under who have been unemployed for six months and more worked in Scotland and the Midlands at the latest convenient date.

Mr. Godber

The available statistics relate to persons under 20 and are collected twice yearly. In July, 1963, 30.7 per cent. of all males in Great Britain under 20, wholly unemployed for over 26 weeks, were in Scotland and 6.2 per cent. in the Midlands region. I will send the hon. Lady the figures for January, 1964, as soon as they are available.

Miss Herbison

Does not the Minister again see from these figures the grave situation that we have in Scotland? Will he inform his hon. Friend the Member for Rutland and Stamford (Mr. K. Lewis), who suggested that our young people should leave Scotland, that 25,000 leave regularly every year and that we in Scotland are determined to fight with everything that is in us to prevent more and more of our young people leaving our country and leaving us with an ageing population? Will the Minister please tell us today what plans he has for ensuring that our young people remain in Scotland and that of those unemployed, over 30 per cent. are not unemployed for over six months?

Mr. Godber

As I have said in answer to previous Questions, what I am doing for the young people of Scotland is stepping up substantially the number of places for training in Government training centres. These will be available to help and, of course, the Industrial Training Bill will be of further help in training. All the things that we are doing in other directions—and I have mentioned advance factories—will help. However, the main thing is to get the climate of opinion and a feeling that Scotland is going ahead, and I am wondering whether concentration on all these points really helps the purpose that hon. Members have in mind.

Mr. Ross

Is not the Minister aware that this position has gone on for at least 12 years and that to ask us at this time to be patient is asking rather much? Is he aware that one in every three of the long-term unemployed is in Scotland and that one in every five young boys unemployed is in Scotland? It is much more than we can stand to be asked to watch our words and be careful. Why do not the Government get on and do something adequate?

Mr. Godber

That is not particularly helpful. Hon. Members must realise—and they do—that the basic problem of these areas is that some older industries have declined materially over the last few years. The Government have been helping by trying to bring fresh industries into these areas and are succeeding in doing so. I know that the figures are still bad, but that is because the new industry has been working against a sharp decline in some of the older industries. We are continuing the programme and I am certain that it will help the situation.

32. Mr. Small

asked the Minister of Labour what was the ratio of wholly unemployed boys to unfilled vacancies for boys in Glasgow and the Midlands at the latest convenient date

Mr. Godber

At the December count, for every 100 wholly unemployed boys there were 38 notified vacancies in the City of Glasgow and 510 in the Midlands Region.

Mr. Small

Does the Minister realise—I am sure he does—that the situation here now in Scotland, and particularly in Glasgow, shows a deterioration in opportunities, especially for shipbuilders, and in the humiliation of our young people who want to take up training with a view to getting skilled careers but cannot, and that this has become a built-in feature of the community structure and that, despite the qualifications which men have, their opportunities for using them in Scotland are practically non-existent?

Mr. Godber

I realise the special difficulties here in the shipbuilding areas. Of course, the Government have done a good deal in the last year to stimulate the position in shipbuilding areas, and the Clyde has had some advantage in this.

Mr. Ross

Yards have closed.

Mr. Godber

Yes. It is, of course, true that some yards have closed, but the hon. Gentleman knows perfectly well, as I do, the force of international competition. This is a very real problem with which we are all concerned.

Mr. P. Williams

Is my right hon. Friend aware that some of us who represent divisions in the North-East are very grateful to some of the Churches which have done a great deal to help with employment for young people away from home as a temporary alleviation of this problem?

Mr. Godber

I agree with my hon. Friend.