HC Deb 16 January 1964 vol 687 cc379-81
1. Mr. Wigg

asked the Secretary of State for Air what was the nature of the assurance given to his predecessor about the future of Skybolt by the late President Kennedy at their meetingat the White House in January, 1962; and whether he will make a statement amplifying the statement made in the House on 12th March, 1962, on the same subject.

The Secretary of State for Air (Mr. Hugh Fraser)

I have nothing to add to the statement made bymy right hon. Friend the Minister of Aviation on 20th December, 1963.

Mr. Wigg

Surely the Minister realises that the matter cannot be left here. His right hon. Friend gave notice to my right hon. Friend the Leader of the Opposition charging him with whatamounts to a distortion of the truth. Is not the right hon. Gentleman aware that it is now established beyond any shadow of doubt that it is the veracity of the Minister of Aviation which is called into question and the honour of the Government? Is he notaware that not only did the conversations take place with the President in January, 1962, but that subsequently at the Nassau conference the President referred to those conversations? Is he not also aware that the Minister of Defence, at a meeting held at the Savoy with the Association of American Correspondents, was asked exactly the same question and was fully aware that the future of Skybolt was in doubt at the same time as the Government were charging the Opposition with not telling the truth about the subject?

Mr. Fraser

I do not want to go into this subject. It has been debated at considerable length in this House. I would just say that a statement was made by the President of the United States on 7th March, saying that the United States Government were spending about a billion dollars on this project, and what the hon. Gentleman is now suggesting is that both my right hon. Friend's veracity is impugned and so is that of the late President.

Mr. Wigg

On the 12th March, 1962, the Minister of Aviation gave notice to my right hon. Friend and asked him to recount to the House statements which he had made and which the Minister of Aviation said he was in a position to check. Events showed beyond any shadow of doubt that the person who was not telling the truth was the Minister of Aviation. Is it not about time—

Mr. Speaker

Order. This is hopelessly out of order. The hon. Gentleman will know that he cannot make such an attack upon the personal conduct of another Member in a Question—it is out of order. He will have to make a substantive Motion for it.

Mr. Mulley

Does not the right hon. Gentleman appreciate that there is a great deal of doubt about this and that since the right hon. Gentleman made this statement as Secretary of State for Air his Department and the Air Force are involved in the question whether or not in our defence planning he knew that there was doubt about Skybolt being available, and will not he try to answer this part of my hon. Friend's allegations?

Mr. Fraser

I tried to answer that. I will repeat it again quite slowly and simply. On the 12th March my right hon. Friend made a statement to the House saying that there was no doubt at that time about the Skybolt programme. This followed precisely five days after the statement by the President of the United States saying that the United States were spending 1,000 million dollars on the project.

Mr. Wigg

On a point of order, Mr. Speaker. You gave a Ruling that I was out of order in making the statement that I did. Is itwithin your knowledge that I did in fact draft a Motion dealing with the conduct of the Minister of Aviation which I withdrew, or at least I did not place it on the Order Paper, on the understanding that we were to get a full statement from the Government? What we got was a shuffling, half-hearted statement from the Minister of Aviation on 20th December and nothing more.

Mr. Speaker

That does not arise from the Ruling I gave. The hon. Gentleman knows the principle perfectly well.