HC Deb 27 February 1964 vol 690 cc599-601
1. Mr. Lubbock

asked the Secretary of State for Air what arrangements have been made for training the crews of V-bombers in their new low-level rôle.

The Secretary of State for Air (Mr. Hugh Fraser)

Up to date, training has been carried out in this country but, as I said in my reply to a Question on 16th January, from the hon. Member for Sheffield, Park (Mr. Mulley) the Canadian Government have agreed in principle to the V-force using a low level training route in Canada as an extension of existing training facilities there. Route proving flights have since been flown in Canada and good progress is being made with the detailed arrangements.

Mr. Lubbock

Although this may be considered a minor point, will not some annoyance be caused to people in the areas underlying these flights if the V-bombers fly at near sonic speeds at a height of 500 ft.? What estimate has been made of the effect low-level training flights will have on the operational life of the V-bombers, and why is it thought that by flying at the height of 500 ft. they can avoid interception?

Mr. Fraser

We are carefully looking at the question of trouble being caused to individual civilians. There are three general routes in this country and they are kept as far away as possible from any centres of population. We have had little trouble on this score in the past. I will be answering the wider question about the efficiency and efficacy of the V-force at low level in the debate later.

Mr. Mulley

Before the right hon. Gentleman makes his speech in the debate, which we are awaiting with great interest, can he not tell us whether in the training programmes any wear or excessive strain on the planes has been revealed?

Mr. Fraser

No, Sir. I will be dealing with that point in the debate. We have fatigue meters in all these aircraft, many of which are new and some of which are less than a year old. There have been no signs at all of the difficulty the hon. Member mentions.

Mr. Wigg

Can the right hon. Gentleman reassure the House that there is no danger of these planes flying at supersonic speeds?

Mr. Fraser

I have another Question to answer on that point.

7. Mr. Mulley

asked the Secretary of State for Air what is the estimated cost of modifications to the V-bomber aircraft and training of their crews involved by the proposed low-level strike rôle.

Mr. H. Fraser

It would not be in the public interest to reveal the cost of the aircraft modifications involved. But, in relation to the total capital cost of the V-force, it is very small. The cost of training V-bomber crews is not significantly affected by the altitudes at which this training is undertaken.

Mr. Mulley

The House will realise that this is a most unsatisfactory Answer. Is not the right hon. Gentleman aware that we are becoming increasingly concerned because we get no information whatever about any financial aspects of defence policy. Other Governments—the United States Government, for example—issue for public circulation the most detailed cost figures for missiles and planes, and almost all aspects of their finance. Surely, this cost can be given to the House, and if the right hon. Gentleman will not give it now, will he justify his conduct in the debate that is to follow?

Mr. Fraser

I am afraid that I always find it difficult to justify my conduct to the hon. Gentleman, but I will endeavour to do so.