HC Deb 04 February 1964 vol 688 cc975-7
Q3. Mr Ginsburg

asked the Prime Minister what machinery exists for co-ordinating intelligence information about East African affairs between the Foreign Office, the Commonwealth Relations Office and the Colonial Office in London and East Africa; and if he will make a statement.

The Prime Minister

All three Departments take part in the co-ordination of intelligence about East Africa. In East Africa, Tanganyika, Uganda, Zanzibar and Kenya are fully independent countries and, as such, are responsible for their own intelligence and security.

Mr. Ginsburg

Is the Prime Minister aware that there is some concern about the co-ordination of intelligence? Can he say whether there was any intelligence failure in recent events—any failure to pass on information? Would he care to comment on the reply of the Secretary of State for Commonwealth Relations last Thursday, to the hon. and gallant Member for Nottingham, Central (Lieut.-Colonel Cordeaux), that we had no prior knowledge about the mutinies?

The Prime Minister

I do not think that I should like to comment on any part of that supplementary question.

Mr. H. Wilson

When the right hon. Gentleman said, on American television, that it was all a Communist plot, was this derived from his own intelligence sources, or had he got it from the intelligence sources of the self-governing Commonwealth countries concerned?

The Prime Minister

Perhaps the right hon. Gentleman will be a little more accurate. What I said was that these simultaneous subversive movements and attempts at coups in all four places could not really be a coincidence. I am glad that the right hon. Gentleman followed me so closely on television. He may recollect that I went on, in answer to a question whether this could be pinned on the Communist Party, to say that I did not propose to answer that question.

Mr. Wilson

Since I did not have the advantage of seeing the right hon. Gentleman on television, but recall his answer in the House last Thursday—[Interruption.] I do not have access to American television. [Interruption.]

Mr. Speaker

Order.

Hon. Members

Order.

Mr. Speaker

Calls of "Order" which do not come from me probably will not assist. I am sure that the House wants to make better progress with Questions. It had better not make so much noise.

Mr. Wilson

Since I do not have access to American television but am able to read the British Press reports of it, and since the right hon. Gentleman reaffirmed it last Thursday and was again on the same theme in Bury last night, will he tell us—since this is so deeply ingrained in his thinking about East Africa—why he did not think of mentioning it in his statement to lsvestia last Saturday?

The Prime Minister

My statement to lsvestia dealt with rather different points. It dealt with Anglo-Russian relations and our desire to get on better terms with the Soviet Union. I have never said—and surely the right hon. Gentleman would be very foolish to believe—that Communist countries will give up their attempts at subversion in Africa and elsewhere.

Sir J. Eden

In the light of what has recently taken place in East Africa, can my right hon. Friend at least assure the House that there are some lessons to be learned, and that both the Commonwealth Relations Office and the Foreign Office should critically examine their own procedures and organisation, and intelligence services?