§ Q3. Mr. P. Noel-Bakerasked the Prime Minister on what occasions and in what form Mr. Khrushchev has given him information regarding the attitude of the Soviet Government in regard to the abandonment of its forward programme for the construction of nuclear weapons and delivery vehicles if the Western Governments agree to a programme of early and general disarmament.
§ The Prime MinisterI have received no information of this kind from Mr. Khrushchev.
§ Mr. Noel-BakerWhat did the right hon. Gentleman mean when he said to the right hon. Member for Orkney and Shetland (Mr. Grimond):
…if the right hon. Gentleman really thinks that the Russians will give up their nuclear programme, he had better go and talk to Mr. Khrushchev."—[OFFICIAL REPORT, 17th March, 1964; Vol. 691, c. 1181.]Has not Mr. Khrushchev been proposing all-round nuclear disarmament under control for the last ten years?
§ The Prime MinisterThe Russian Government put forward certain proposals for a total disarmament scheme. Every item of those proposals and every stage would have to be completed, according to them, before we could even begin. This has really been one of the troubles.
§ Mr. Noel-BakerIn his reply to the right hon. Member for Orkney and Shetland, was the Prime Minister using Mr. Khrushchev as an excuse for going on with our nuclear Polaris programme for the next ten years? If not, will he now say that we will give it up if President Johnson's "freeze" is applied?
§ The Prime MinisterNo, Sir. What I have said time and time again is that I want to see an international disarmament scheme. When we see it, we can decide what to do with our own nuclear weapons, but we must see it before we and the Americans and, indeed, the Russians can decide. The best place to do that is at the Geneva Conference.
§ Sir C. OsborneOn the question of general disarmament, has my right hon. Friend received any communications from Moscow indicating whether the attacks by China on the Soviet Union will affect the Soviet position generally on disarmament and, understandably, make it impossible for the Russians to go on with it?
§ The Prime MinisterI have before now called attention to the fact that I think that the Chinese attitude towards the Soviet Union is one of the calculations in the minds of the Russians in considering how far they can take disarmament.
§ Mr. GrimondThe right hon. Gentleman has indicated to the right hon. Member for Derby, South (Mr. P. Noel-Baker) that there are certain unsatisfactory 232 features about the Russian proposals to date. Can he now say whether Her Majesty's Government have made counter-suggestions to the Russians and how the matter stands today?
§ The Prime MinisterWe have put forward a plan in great detail. One of the difficulties is that stage one of the Russian plan contains so much, including the abandonment of all bases—which would mean, for instance, that no missiles could be situated in the N.A.T.O. area except the United States. This is one of the problems we have to get over.
§ Mr. Noel-BakerIn his last answer to me, was the Prime Minister indicating that he was withdrawing the statement by the Minister of Defence that in all circumstances we should go on with our Polaris programme, whatever else might happen?
§ The Prime MinisterCertainly we should go on with our Polaris programme; that is so. We shall not arrive at an international disarmament scheme in the foreseeable future.