HC Deb 09 April 1964 vol 692 cc1198-202
11. Dr. Dickson Mabon

asked the Secretary of State for Education and Science what representations he has received from universities and other interested persons in support of the establishment of the proposed World Health Research Centre in the United Kingdom.

Sir E. Boyle

My right hon. Friend has received one letter, from a university professor; the reply contained substantially the information given by my right hon. Friend the Lord Privy Seal in answer to the Question from the right hon. Member for Derby, South (Mr. P. Noel-Baker) on 19th March. He also has received a copy of correspondence on the subject between the hon. Member for Motherwell (Mr. Lawson) and my right hon. Friend the Minister of Health.

Dr. Mabon

Has the Minister's attention been drawn to the fact that this World Health Research Centre might attract a great number of scientists from abroad and help to correct the balance of scientific outflow and inflow which we have been talking about? Will the right hon. Gentleman take an active interest in this matter, in view of the contradiction of policy expressed between the Secretary of State for Scotland on the one hand, who favours the project, and the Minister of Health on the other, who, to say the least, is unsympathetic?

Sir E. Boyle

We have taken an active interest in this matter. There are other Questions on the Order Paper on the subject. The representations received by the Government do not suggest that there is widespread and general support among the scientific community for an establishment of this nature in its present form.

12. Mr. Willis

asked the Secretary of State for Education and Science what proposals he now has for a United Kingdom contribution to the World Health Research Centre proposed at the recent World Health Organisation Conference.

18. Mr. Small

asked the Secretary of State for Education and Science what further research is now being undertaken in the United Kingdom on the desirability of establishing a World Research Centre of the kind proposed at the recent World Health Organisation Conference.

Sir E. Boyle

I believe that further study of these proposals would best be undertaken after it is known whether the member countries of the World Health Organisation are likely to agree to establish a World Health Research Centre, and what form any such centre is likely to take.

Mr. Willis

In view of the fact that that is not likely to be for another 12 months, is not this rather unsatisfactory? Is not the right hon. Gentleman aware that there is a much wider feeling than he thinks that the Government are dragging their feet about this matter and that there is no unanimity in the Government about it? Is he aware that what we would like to see is some positive action and the Government coming forward with proposals to place this new research organisation in Great Britain?

Sir E. Boyle

The hon. Member is quite misinformed about the matter. There has been no dragging of feet. We have taken the advice of the A.C.S.P. and these proposals have been referred back to the Director-General of the W.H.O. for further consideration. There were certain aspects of the original ideas which we were ready to support, but the plans for large laboratories for medical research did not seem to us to be the best means of scientific advance.

Mr. Small

Will the right hon. Gentleman undertake further and deeper research and establish some positive criteria, assuming that we are willing to house a voluntary world health centre in the United Kingdom so that we can take part in the international infrastructure of the United Nations?

Sir E. Boyle

I think that we should await the result of this reference back first, but I assure the hon. Member that there is no question of the Government dragging their feet.

Mr. Crossman

As for the Government dragging their feet, is it not a fact that on the original proposition the Government's representative was the only representative who gave a flat negative in opposition from the beginning? Is it not worth considering whether we should not do for a molecular laboratory what C.E.R.N. has done for nuclear physics by international co-operation, and should we not consider whether we might take an active rôle in assisting other people to make up their minds about this?

Sir E. Boyle

In answer to the last part of the supplementary question, the success of the international research laboratory for high energy physics in C.E.R.N., for example, is not an argument for similar research facilities for subjects which do not require equipment of the same degree of high cost. There is no precise parallel here. The original Answer shows that we did not present a flat negative to the scheme, and clearly it is right that the Government should take advice from their duly constituted advisers on the subject.

16. Mr. Millan

asked the Secretary of State for Education and Science what consultations he has had with the Medical Research Council on the proposal for a World Health Organisation Research Centre.

19. Mr. Ross

asked the Secretary of State for Education and Science what scientific advice he is now seeking on the proposal to establish a World Health Research Centre.

21. Mr. Lawson

asked the Secretary of State for Education and Science what further scientific advice he has now received on the proposal made at the recent World Health Organisation Conference to establish a World Health Research Centre.

Sir E. Boyle

My right hon. Friend received advice on these proposals from the Advisory Council on Scientific Policy before the World Health Assembly met last month. The Medical Research Council also offered its advice. There is no cause to seek further advice until we have the result of the further study being undertaken by the Director-General of the World Health Organisation.

Mr. Millan

Is it not a fact that the proposal put forward by the Director-General of the World Health Organisation was the result of the work of an advisory committee of 30 persons, including a number of Britons, with two Nobel prizewinners among them? Could not the Minister at least take the advice of these British members of the Director-General's working party? There is certainly a division of scientific opinion in this country on this matter.

Sir E Boyle

I assure hon. Members that we will take all relevant advice into account, but we must bear in mind in particular the advice that we have had from the Advisory Council on Scientific Policy and the Medical Research Council.

Mr. Lawson

Does not the right hon. Gentleman agree that the very fact that there has been so much evidence of widespread disagreement among scientists indicates that advice from others is at least something to be looked at? Will he not see that something is done urgently in this matter?

Sir E. Boyle

The hon. Gentleman may genuinely be exaggerating the difference among scientists on this matter as compared with other members of the public. The Medical Research Council expressed its opinion on proposals which were based on the findings of a conference of independent scientists.

Mr. Ross

Will the right hon. Gentleman make available to us the advice that he has been given by the various scientists whom he has so far consulted?

Sir E. Boyle

My right hon. Friend is certainly looking into the possibility of publishing a full statement of the advice that we have received from the Advisory Council on Scientific Policy.