§ 13. Mr. Willisasked the Secretary of State for Education and Science whether he proposes to set up a separate University Grants Committee for Scotland.
§ 15. Mr. Millanasked the Secretary of State for Education and Science what proposals he has for the reconstruction of the University Grants Committee to allow for co-ordination of policies with regard to universities in Scotland.
§ Sir E. BoyleNo, Sir. A separate University Grants Committee for Scotland would be in accord neither with the recommendations of the Report of the Committee on Higher Education nor with the wishes of the Scottish Universities themselves. My right hon. Friend is confident that the University Grants Committee will be no less effective than hitherto in its co-ordination of policies with regard to universities in Scotland.
§ Mr. WillisWhilst accepting the probable necessity for a single University Grants Committee, may I ask whether the right hon. Gentleman is aware that quite a number of people feel that in Scotland the Committee ought to be responsible to the Secretary of State and that this is necessary if we are to have the fullest co-ordination of educational services in Scotland?
§ Sir E. BoyleI can assure the hon. Member that the Scottish universities themselves, through their principals, have made it quite clear that they would be very concerned about any arrangement which involved their being dealt with separately by a method different from that which applies to universities in England and Wales. The hon. Member will be aware that members of the University Grants Committee are 1193 appointed only after the fullest consultation with the Secretary of State for Scotland.
§ Mr. MillanSince the unity of the educational structure under one Minister has been accepted for England and Wales, are there not similarly valid arguments for having that unity in Scotland? How will the Secretary of State for Scotland, who will be responsible for primary and secondary education and teacher training colleges, be brought into discussions about universities in Scotland?
§ Sir E. BoyleWith respect, I do not believe that the Scottish universities would feel it a step forward towards greater unity that they should be dealt with separately from universities in England and Wales. All that has happened is that Ministerial responsibility for the University Grants Committee, which used to lie with the Chancellor of the Exchequer and was with my right hon. Friend until this month, now rests with the Secretary of State for Education and Science. We have not, therefore, created a new division which was not there before.
§ Mr. RossSurely the right hon. Gentleman realises that a change has been made and duties have been given to the Secretary of State for Education and Science for reasons which my hon. Friend the Member for Glasgow, Craigton (Mr. Millan) has mentioned, because we must retain unity and continuity in education? If that is obtained by means of this change in England and Wales, does not the right hon. Gentleman agree that we do not get it in Scotland? Will the right hon. Gentleman think about this matter again and bear in mind, with reference to the original Answer, that the Government themselves did not accept the recommendation of the Robbins Committee in relation to Scotland?
§ Sir E. BoyleI assure the hon. Member that there is no difference in the relationship between the Scottish universities and the successor Department to the Treasury. On this matter we must bear in mind what has been said to us, through the principals, by the Scottish universities.