HC Deb 07 April 1964 vol 692 cc787-8
19. Mr. Dodds

asked the Minister of Housing and Local Government and Minister for Welsh Affairs on what date the Essex County Council first communicated with his Department in reply to Circular No. 6/62 of 8th February, 1962, on the problem of gypsies and other travellers.

The Joint Parliamentary Secretary to the Ministry of Housing and Local Government (Mr. F. V. Corfield)

On 27th July, 1962.

Mr. Dodds

Does that reply reveal that there were over 200 families without lawful sites, twice as many as in Kent? Is the hon. Gentleman aware that Kent is trying to provide sites? What is Essex doing about it?

Mr. Corfield

The answer to the second part of the hon. Gentleman's supplementary question would be made more appropriately in reply to his next Question. It is true that a survey showed 208 caravans, but it was the conclusion of the Essex County Council that the number of caravans in relation to the size of the county called for no further action.

Mr. Dodds

Is the Parliamentary Secretary saying that people who live in caravans, who have no site for their caravan and are being hounded by the police, are comforted to know that they are in a bigger county than Kent? Is not that a stupid way to deal with this problem? Is he aware that we are asking for sites for men, women, and children and that this is not South Africa—this is Britain?

Mr. Corfield

If the hon. Gentleman will do me the honour of reading my Answer, he will see that I did not say that at all.

20. Mr. Dodds

asked the Minister of Housing and Local Government and Minister for Welsh Affairs, in view of the unsatisfactory conditions in Essex for gypsies and other travellers, what progress has been made in discussions with the county council for the provision of places where their caravans can be accommodated, particularly during winter months when work is not available on the farms, for those who wish for a settled way of life and that their children shall go to school.

Mr. Corfield

Following earlier discussions, Essex County Council carried out a further survey on 14th November, 1963. They are now looking for suitable sites in those areas where the concentration of itinerants shows that there is a need for winter quarters.

Mr. Dodds

Surely the survey was taken in February and March of 1962? What have they been doing in the two previous years? Or is it a case that his Department has not exerted any pressure or tried to persuade them to do something which it might have been expected would be done for families who are in this situation because of the passing of legislation in this House, including the Caravan Sites and Control of Development Act?

Mr. Corfield

The hon. Gentleman knows that I have undertaken to see the county councils of the Home Counties again very shortly, but he will also know that my powers are limited to persuasion and exhortation. With the advantage of hindsight, it is evident that Essex has not done as much as ought to have been done, or as has been done by neighbouring counties.