HC Deb 26 November 1963 vol 685 cc62-3
18. Mr. Frank Allaun

asked the Minister of Housing and Local Government and Minister for Welsh Affairs how many local authorities have had to raise their council house rents since 1st January, 1962;what proportion of all local authorities this represents; and approximately how many dwellings are involved.

Sir K. Joseph

I do not have this information, as local authorities are not required to tell me what they do about fixing rents.

Mr. Allaun

Does not the Minister realise that probably at least half of the local authorities have had to raise their rents in the last eighteen months—[An HON. MEMBER: "Several times."]—yes, several times. Does not the Minister agree that hardly any of these increases would have been necessary if the interest rate had been retained at 2½ per cent., which was the average under the Labour Government?

Sir K. Joseph

What I know is that, whatever the level of rents, the people on the waiting list are only too anxious to get local authority houses. [HON. MEMBERS: "Oh."] Yes, at the present level of rents. The constituency of the hon. Member for Salford, East (Mr. Allaun) is wise enough to know the sense of using the subsidy by way of a rent rebate scheme to make local authority accommodation available to all, whatever their income.

Mr. MacColl

Is it not extraordinary that the right hon. Gentleman does not know the answer to this Question? In view of the fact that he is always scolding local authorities for not carrying out their obligations in this field, is it not remarkable that he has not taken the trouble to find out what proportion of them are doing it?

Sir K. Joseph

No, Sir. We have free local government. I have to have a certain amount of information, but not more than is necessary for the conduct of my responsibilities. It is not necessary for me to ask local authorities to tell me every time they change the rents.

Mr. Allaun

Is it not true that two-thirds of economic rents which are being paid today on new council flats is going to pay interest to the investor? Surely the right hon. Gentleman must agree that this is the main cause of all the trouble to people who are in houses or hoping to go into houses.

Sir K. Joseph

I do not recognise a trouble here. Local authority programmes are rising fast. I have no evidence that people on waiting lists are unable to take up the accommodation offered to them because of the rent level. If there is, it is open to the local authorities sensibly to use a rent rebate scheme to make good the defects.