HC Deb 19 November 1963 vol 684 cc785-7
13. Mr. Dodds

asked the Minister of Housing and Local Government and Minister for Welsh Affairs what progress has been made by the Hampshire County Council in the rehabilitation of the 157 families of gypsies, didicois, and other travellers known to be usually resident in the county; how many sites are contemplated; what is the estimated cost; in what way rehabilitation will be encouraged; how long it is estimated the problem will require special measures; and if the centres will be under the control of district councils or the county council.

The Joint Parliamentary Secretary to the Ministry of Housing and Local Government (Mr. F. V. Corfield)

Four sites are envisaged; one has been obtained and negotiations are proceeding for a second. The estimated cost of laying out and equipping the first site is £20,058. The sites will be under the control of the county council as welfare authority. Questions on rehabilitation do not fall within my right hon. Friend's responsibilities.

Mr. Dodds

That is great news. Will the Parliamentary Secretary consider in due course sending to other county councils details of Hampshire's enlightened policy so that we in this country can really begin to criticise with some right the conduct of human relations in lands overseas?

Mr. Corfield

I will certainly consider that. I am glad that the hon. Member agrees with me that this is an enlightened and humane approach.

Sir Richard Pilkington

Is my hon. Friend aware that Dorset also has this problem and that the hon. Member for Erith and Crayford (Mr. Dodds) is doing a very good job of work in this respect?

14. Mr. Dodds

asked the Minister of Housing and Local Government and Minister for Welsh Affairs, in view of the undertakings given by the Kent County Council in July, 1962, to provide 10 sites for gypsies and other travellers in Kent, if he will give details of the progress made and the provision that will be available for them this winter; and what measures are being introduced for the rehabilitation of these people with special regard to children and teenagers.

Mr. Corfield

Two local authority sites for gypsies and other itinerants have already been established in Kent. Work on a third is progressing and it may be completed in time for use this winter. Applications for planning permission to use two further sites are now before my right hon. Friend. The county council is continuing its search for other suitable sites in order to attain the 10 sites which it considers desirable in the county. More permanent sites will be available for these people this winter than in the past and the number of sites should steadily increase.

Questions on rehabilitation do not fall within my right hon. Friend's responsibility.

Mr. Dodds

That is not so good. Will the Parliamentary Secretary bear in mind that the Kent County Council opposed my application for the Cobham site in July, 1962, on the ground that it was unnecessary? Will he also bear in mind that this is the second winter that men, women and children are still being pushed backwards and forwards on the grass verges of the main trunk roads with no hope, evenat Christmas, of coming within the law? Would the hon. Gentleman therefore press the Kent authorities to get a move on in this respect?

Mr. Corfield

I share the hon. Member's disappointment, but I hope that the House will appreciate the difficulties. My right hon. Friend and, to a large extent, the county council can only persuade the district councils, but I am satisfied that they are really trying. I hope that we shall have the 10 sites in the not too distant future.

Mr. J. Wells

May I urge my right hon. Friend the Minister, when he considers these planning applications, to bear in mind the fundamental fact that gypsies and other travellers no longer earn their honest living in the countryside but on the fringes of urban society and to ensure that theseproposed sites are put in places where they can earn an honest living and not resort to petty thieving?

Mr. Corfield

I am sure that the House will appreciate that we must wait until the applications come before us. When they do we will consider them in the light of all the planning considerations, as we do with other planning applications.