HC Deb 18 November 1963 vol 684 cc623-7
35. Mr. Mayhew

asked the Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs how many scholarships have been granted by the British Council to South Africans; and how many of these were for Europeans, Indians, Coloured and Africans, respectively.

The Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs (Mr. R. A. Butler)

The number of scholarships granted to South Africans for the academic year 1963–64 was 22, of which 18 were for Europeans, two for Indians, one for a coloured person, and one for an African. In addition ten British Council bursaries were granted of which one was for a European, five for Africans, two for Indians and two for coloureds; all these were taken up. Two further African candidatures are under consideration. I am not satisfied and, in consultation with the British Council, intend to review the situation.

Mr. Mayhew

Is the Foreign Secretary aware that, in operating in South Africa, the Council is compelled to work very closely with organisations such as the Department of Bantu Education which openly preach and practise racialist education policies? Does the right hon. Gentleman realise that this is not only objectionable in itself—the figures of scholarships show one African out of 22 scholarships, and the one African refused a visa after he had been awarded the scholarship—but creates a real danger of racial discrimination creeping into the work of the Council itself? Is there not also the risk that the Government, by insisting upon the Council operating in South Africa, will endanger its magnificent work, especially among young people, in the emerging countries of Africa and Asia?

Mr. Butler

The next Question deals with the work of the Council in South Africa, and I shall keep my answers on that subject until then. On the question of the granting of scholarships, I purposely answered that I was not satisfied because I am not satisfied with the proportion of scholarships granted as between Africans, Europeans and so forth, and I therefore propose to take this up with the British Council. I shall review the situation and in due course inform the House.

Mr. Mayhew

I am grateful for the right hon. Gentleman's conciliatory reply, but is he aware that it is not only a matter of the number of Africans but of the kind of Africans who are awarded these scholarships? Is he aware that the one African who was awarded a scholarship was an official of the Bantu Education Department?

Mr. Butler

I am aware of that, and I am aware also of what the hon. Gentleman said, that he was refused an exit visa. This has all added to the reasons why I want to investigate the matter.

36. Mr. Mayhew

asked the Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs if he will recommend the withdrawal of the British Council from South Africa.

Mr. R. A. Butler

No, Sir.

Mr. Mayhew

Will the right hon. Gentleman note that while, as we on this side realise, the Council's ability to operate outside the political arena is one of its great strengths, there comes a point when it becomes really impracticable even to have cultural collaboration with a regime, and that this point has now been reached and passed in the case of South Africa?

Mr. Butler

The British Government's view about apartheid is well known, but we take the view that to withdraw the Council would not serve to demonstrate further our abhorrence of this practice. It might well discourage those sections of the South African population of all races who wish to maintain links with the more liberal values of British thought and experience. Therefore, after considering the hon. Gentleman's Question most carefully, I have come to the conclusion that it would not be wise to withdraw the British Council.

Sir C. Mott-Radclyffe

In view of the essentially non-party character of the British Council and its long tradition of something akin to independence from whatever Government may be in power here at any given time, does my right hon. Friend agree that a purely political gesture of the kind recommended by the hon. Gentleman opposite would not only remove all cultural links with everyone in South Africa, European and African, but would at once achieve the worst of all possible worlds?

Mr. Butler

Yes, Sir; it is because we regard the British Council as a cultural and not a political organisation that I most definitely hesitated in accepting the suggestion made by the Opposition Front Bench.

Mr. Gordon Walker

Will the right hon. Gentleman review this matter also—he said that he would review the question of scholarships—since the two are intimately related? The very things which have worried him about the scholarships affect the whole question of the British Council's operations in the Republic of South Africa. Does he realise that it is not logical to review the one and refuse to review the other?

Mr. Butler

In fact, the Council assumed responsibility for scholarships only as lately as 1963, so it has not had very long; before that, it was done by the South African authorities. I do not think that what I regard as an unsatisfactory result over the scholarships prejudices the whole question of keeping the British Council in South Africa.

38. Mr. Edelman

asked the Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs if he will make a statement on the work of the British Council in South Africa.

Mr. R. A. Butler

The British Council is represented in South Africa by a cultural attachéwho is a member of the staff of Her Majesty's Ambassador and carries out the normal cultural and educational work of a British Council representative overseas.

Mr. Edelman

Does the Foreign Secretary think it fitting, in view of what the Prime Minister said about the evils of racial divisions, that the British Council in South Africa should collaborate in a policy of cultural apartheid? Is he aware, for example, that the African who was granted a scholarship was refused a visa on the ground of alleged subversive activities which consisted, in fact, of opposing apartheid? Is he further aware that, of those who were granted bursaries, two out of the three were actually employees of the South African Government in the Department of Bantu Education? In the circumstances, does he not regard the whole situation as utterly unsatisfactory?

Mr. Butler

I have already told the House that I am looking into the question of the grant of these scholarships and those to whom they were granted, as well as the question of the bursaries, which I now add; but this does not detract from my view that the British Council still has useful work to do in South Africa.

Sir G. Nicholson

Has the British Council no office in South Africa? Is the only link with South Africa a cultural attaché? Does not this impinge upon the basic theory that the British Council is non-political?

Mr. Butler

No, Sir, I do not think so. In fact, there is a cultural attaché, with assistants.

Mr. Mayhew

The right hon. Gentleman said earlier that he thought that the presence of the British Council gave some encouragement to liberal elements there. Does not he realise that the close collaboration between the Bantu Education Department and the British Council gives considerable encouragement and reassurance to those who are advocating apartheid in South Africa?

Mr. Butler

The hon. Gentleman came to see me about this question, and I have examined it quite carefully. It is difficult for the British Council not to collaborate with the authorities for education which exist in South Africa, in the same way as they collaborate with the authorities in other countries. I can at present see no way round this, but I will continue to examine the problem.

Mr. P. Noel-Baker

Does not the right hon. Gentleman's answer give the conclusive reason why the British Council should be withdrawn from South Africa? Will he reconsider the matter?

Mr. Butler

No, Sir; I do not think that the British Council should be withdrawn from South Africa.