HC Deb 09 May 1963 vol 677 cc644-5
8. Mr. Zilliacus

asked the Minister of Housing and Local Government and Minister for Welsh Affairs whether it remains the policy of Her Majesty's Government, as stated in a reply to the hon. Member for Gorton on 12th March, 1960, to carry out its plan for evacuation and related civil defence measures during the general period of alert in a time of tension, before the final warning of four minutes.

Sir K. Joseph

It remains the Government's policy that advantage should be taken of any suitable opportunity in a time of tension for carrying out civil defence measures, including dispersal, if that were thought appropriate in the circumstances.

Mr. Zilliacus

How do the Government propose to get round the dilemma that it will be too late to evacuate people after the four-minute warning and that, if they began to do so before, they would create a state of panic throughout the world which would greatly increase the chances of the crisis ending in war, besides provoking a major revolt among the people of this country?

Sir K. Joseph

We cannot possibly predict the exact circumstances of any such dilemma. The point is that, unless plans are made, we shall have no option of dispersal whatsoever.

Mr. Emrys Hughes

Is the right hon. Gentleman considering the dispersal of the population of this country to Ireland, which is regarded as very much safer because it has not got an armaments programme?

9. Mr. Zilliacus

asked the Minister of Housing and Local Government and Minister for Welsh Affairs what is the approximate length of time necessary to carry out the plan for evacuation in a general period of alert.

Sir K. Joseph

If dispersal were decided on, it would take several days to complete, the period depending on plans for transport which are still under consideration, and on the number of people who, in the event, decided to take part.

Mr. Zilliacus

Flow acute would the crisis have to be before any of this starts happening? For instance, in the Cuban crisis no measures were taken, although V-bombers and rockets were alerted in this country. How much more acute would a crisis have to be before it was regarded as necessary to proceed with this policy?

Sir K. Joseph

That is quite another question.

22. Mr. Hayman

asked the Minister of Housing and Local Government and Minister for Welsh Affairs how many evacuees Cornwall has been asked to prepare to receive under the Civil Defence scheme should war in Europe seem imminent.

Mr. Corfield

If the dispersal scheme as at present proposed were carried out, a maximum of about 365,000 people would be sent to Cornwall.

Mr. Hayman

Is the Parliamentary Secretary aware that that figure considerably exceeds the present total population of the county? Was that figure arrived at before the Beeching plan for reducing a large part of the railway system was announced? What revision of the figure does the hon. Gentleman propose to make in view of the Beeching proposals?

Mr. Corfield

The figure was, of course, arrived at before the Beeching proposals were known, but, as my right hon. Friend made clear in reply to a Question by the hon. Member for Manchester, Gorton (Mr. Zilliacus), the Government are considering what effect these proposals will have on the detailed planning of the evacuation scheme; and this will be made known as soon as possible.