HC Deb 01 May 1963 vol 676 cc1180-1

list of the family, I shall have some objections to make at that stage.

Mr. Whitelaw

I beg to move, in page 7, line 22, to leave out from "employer" to the end of line 23.

Mr. Deputy-Speaker

With this Amendment can be discussed that in page 7, line 21, to leave out "ordinarily works" and insert "has worked" although it would not be possible to have a Division on the latter.

Mr. Whitelaw

This Amendment results from an undertaking which we gave to examine the provisions of Clause 7(1), which concerns work outside Great Britain, in the light of Amendments which were put forward in Committee by the hon. Member for Glasgow, Govan (Mr. Rankin) and the discussions which ensued.

There are obviously limits to the extent to which the Bill could be applied abroad, the employment is in another country and the danger that confusion, and even conflict, might arise between what the Bill provides and what the labour laws of other countries provide. Nevertheless, I think that it is right that if a man normally works in this country but his firm sends him abroad for a spell, he should continue to be covered by the Bill during the spell abroad. We have re-examined the Bill in the light of the discussion in Committee and we think that it is desirable to make an Amendment which will, I hope, establish this beyond doubt. The condition, that if the work abroad is to count, it must not involve a change of residence, can be dropped. The effect of Clause 7(1) will therefore be that so long as the employee ordinarily works in this country, he will be covered during a spell abroad while working for the same employer.

The Amendment which we are discussing with this seeks to go much further and to apply the Bill to any employee who has worked for his employer in this country, regardless of whether he is at home or abroad. It is only fair and right briefly to point out the somewhat freak effect of this Amendment. It would mean that if, say, a Japanese sales representative visited this country on business, he would from that point be covered by the Bill, even if he returned to Japan after his visit and continued for the rest of his life to work in Japan for the same employer. That would be a somewhat strange situation and was probably not intended.

What I take to be intended is that an employee engaged in this country by a British firm which operates a great deal abroad should be covered by the Bill all the time he is working for the firm, even though he spends most of his working life abroad. One undoubtedly has considerable sympathy with this intention, but I have grave doubts about whether it would be practicable to give effect to it.

As I have said, there are limits to the extent to which the Bill can be applied abroad. To try to apply it to people who are working abroad practically the whole time oversteps what is practicable. One must bear in mind that these people generally have rights to notice which go beyond the minima in the Bill and that it is normal for them to have written contracts. I hope that with that explanation I have been able to persuade the House that it would be right to adopt the Government Amendment without the Opposition Amendment.

Mr. Gunter

We are very grateful to the Parliamentary Secretary for the diligence that he has applied to this, and I can tell him that we are very satisfied with the result of his researches. I did not know that he was going to Japan—he gets into some funny company, with lawyers, and that sort of thing—but we are grateful for the researches that he has made. I think that he has adequately covered the point which I raised in Committee.

Amendment agreed to.

Mr. Deputy-Speaker

I understand that the new Schedule and the first and third Amendments thereto have already been discussed. I propose, therefore, to put the Schedule and then call for a Division on either of the Amendments if the hon. Gentleman should so desire.