HC Deb 19 March 1963 vol 674 cc185-9
10. Mr. Wingfield Digby

asked the Parliamentary Secretary for Science what progress has now been made by the three-fold organisation set up by the Atomic Energy Authority in 1961 to carry out research into the problems of nuclear propulsion for ships; and how much of the £3 million he estimated would be spent in three years has now been expended.

Mr. Denzil Freeth

The Atomic Energy Authority, in collaboration with the British Ship Research Association, is now concentrating its effort on the Vulcain and integral boiling reactor systems. Under the research programme of some £3 million announced in November 1961, about £1.1 million has been spent to date.

Mr. Digby

Is not that a little disappointing, as it has now been going on for a year and a half? Will my hon. Friend authorise further expenditure if necessary? Will he allow more scientists to concentrate on this project if they can be found?

Mr. Freeth

At the present time the shortage of money is not the factor which is inhibiting research, because we have still spent only just over a third of the money allocated. To the best of my knowledge and belief, the team working on these two reactors has not stated that the work is being held up through lack of funds.

Sir L. Ropner

Is it not a fact that the Mitchell Fairfield organisation is prepared to quote for a merchant ship now, guaranteeing price and performance and date of delivery?

Mr. Freeth

The advisers to the Government considered the drawings of the Mitchell reactor when they were deciding upon which two reactor systems to concentrate research. Even bearing in mind all the points which the creators of the Mitchell system claim for it, they came to the conclusion that the Vulcain and integral boiling water reactor systems were more likely to prove economic.

Mr. Bence

Could the Parliamentary Secretary tell us whether the Yarrow Admiralty Committee on the Clyde is being readily consulted and that information is being conveyed to it about what is going on in this development?

Mr. Freeth

As the Parliamentary Secretary to the Ministry of Transport said in this House, I think on Monday, the people at Yarrow have been brought into consultation.

25. Commander Courtney

asked the Parliamentary Secretary far Science if he will give the names of the Padmore Working group concerned with nuclear propulsion for merchant shipping, together with the names of the members of the study panel which made the decision to concentrate on the Vulcain and the integral boiling water reactors as the two types most technically suitable for further development for marine propulsion purposes.

Mr. Denzil Freeth

With permission, I will circulate in the OFFICIAL REPORT the names of the members of the Working Group, together with those of the study panel which made the technical assessment of the various reactor systems.

Commander Courtney

Is my hon. Friend aware of the widespread anxiety caused by the fact that in this very important matter it seems that the Atomic Energy Authority is acting as judge and jury in its own case? Can he assure the House that the interests of private enterprise will be properly safeguarded both by the independence and by the technical qualifications of these gentlemen?

Mr. Freeth

I think so. The Study Panel was composed of three members of the Atomic Energy Authority, three members who were not members of the Atomic Energy Authority, and a chairman who was also not a member of the Atomic Energy Authority. With regard to my hon. Friend's second point, the Padmore Group, as it is commonly known, had on it a representative of the General Council of British Shipping and a representative of Lloyd's Register of Shipping as well as the director of the London Laboratories of the British Ship Research Association. The reports both of the Panel and of the Working Group were unanimous.

Dame Irene Ward

Will my hon. Friend bear in mind that there is considerable anxiety among a large number of knowledgeable people that all is not really well with the experimentation which is going on at Risley? Would he agree to accept some quite independent knowledgeable expert, such as Professor John Kay, to see whether all aspects of the matter are being satisfactorily dealt with so that the general public who are interested in this matter can have satisfaction?

Mr. Freeth

The Working Group existed to advise the Government on this important matter and it set up the Study Panel in order to make the technical assessments. It considered a variety of possible reactor systems. It was unanimous in its choice of the two upon which it was decided that the Government should concentrate their efforts. I do not think we can now start asking somebody to come in in order to criticise the unanimous opinion of this Study Group. I am certain that the group at Risley would welcome any expert who cared to go and discuss matters with it, bearing in mind the fact that commercial secrecy does enter into this problem.

Following are the names: The Chairman of the group is Sir Thomas Padmore (Permanent Secretary, Ministry of Transport). The members are Sir William Cook (Atomic Energy Authority), Sir Victor Shepheard (British Ship Research Association), Mr. A. Logan (General Council of British Shipping), Professor J. Diamond (Manchester University), Mr. H. N. Pemberton (Lloyds Register of Shipping), Dr. E. Lee (Department of Scientific and Industrial Research), Rear Admiral R. S. Hawkins (Admiralty), and Mr. M. I. Michaels (Office of the Minister for Science). The panel which made the technical assessment of the various reactor systems comprised Professor J. Diamond (Chairman), Mr. H. N. Pemberton, Dr. J. E. Richards (British Ship Research Association), Captain L. D. Dymoke (Deputy Director of Marine Engineering, Admiralty) and Mr. S. Fawcett. Mr. F. W. Fenning and Mr. R. P. Kinsey (Atomic Energy Authority).
29. Mr. Wingfield Digby

asked the Parliamentary Secretary for Science what progress has been made by the Atomic Energy Authority in the study of four possible reactor systems for ships; and which system is now considered most promising.

Mr. Denzil Freeth

As I informed my hon. Friend, the Member for the Isle of Ely (Sir H. Legge-Bourke) on 27th November, the programme for research and development, financed by the Government, has been narrowed down to the Vulcain and integral boiling reactors, which have technical advantages worked out over the last year or two. Both types show promise in their present state of development: work on the Vulcain is perhaps more advanced, but the integral boiling reactor might prove more economic.

Mr. Digby

Can my hon. Friend say when a decision will be reached about these two reactors? Will there be any more research into the point that has been criticised—namely, the internal pumps?

Mr. Freeth

On the first part of that supplementary question, I hope that we shall be in a position to say whether either or both of the two reactor systems in fact will prove to be economic by the end of the summer. On the second part, we do not accept the criticism that has been made about the pumps nor the point about radioactive steam which has been made in some quarters.

Dame Irene Ward

Can my hon. Friend now say why no emphasis has been laid on the marine engineering side for future development after the reactors have finally been put into operation? Is that not a point which requires examination?

Mr. Freeth

This point is under examination, because the British Ship Research Association has seconded people to the team which is doing the planning for the first nuclear merchant ship. The question of the design of the vessel is one of the matters on which my right hon. Friend the Minister of Transport is having conversations with the shipbuilding industry.