HC Deb 18 March 1963 vol 674 cc1-3
1. Mr. Iremonger

asked the Minister of Pensions and National Insurance if he will introduce legislation to clear up in favour of the pensioner the anomaly whereby luncheon vouchers are counted as earnings for the purposes of the application of the earnings rule, although they are not counted as income for the purposes of assessing Income Tax.

The Minister of Pensions and National Insurance (Mr. Niall Macpherson)

No, Sir. As my hon. Friend knows, the calculation of net earnings for the purposes of benefit adjustments is for independent statutory authorities. While these authorities have ruled that payments in kind should be included, they have also ruled that particular expenses, such as fares to and from work which do not rank for Income Tax relief, should be de- ducted. My hon. Friend should not assume that the adoption of the Income Tax rules in calculating the earnings of employed pensioners would in every ease produce results more favourable to them.

Mr. Iremonger

While thanking my right hon. Friend for that reply, might I suggest that the object of the operation is not to apply them all but to apply those rules which would benefit the pensioner? Could not my right hon. Friend stretch a point, because it seems that the pensioner here is suffering from the double-headed penny, which is very much resented?

Mr. Macpherson

As I have indicated, they have some advantages, in a comparison with Income Tax, and some disadvantages. The Commissioner has ruled that earnings for National Insurance benefit purposes include payment in kind. Indeed, if we are to apply the earnings rule at all, it seems difficult to say that those who get payments in kind should have them disregarded and so be that much better off than those who do not get anything.

Miss Herbison

Surely the right hon. Gentleman will give further consideration to this? It is not only the retired people who suffer from this disability, but widows who perhaps are working in a school meal service and get a school lunch and find that this is added to their earnings and their pension is cut accordingly. It seems a great hardship that so many other people at the other end can get so much Income Tax relief on expense accounts. This really would not involve a great sum of money.

Mr. Speaker

Order. We are constantly being told that supplementary questions must be shorter.

Mr. Macpherson

It might not involve a great deal of money, but it would involve a certain amount of unfairness between those who get benefits in kind and those who do not.