§ 39. Mr. Lawsonasked the Minister of Labour what was the number of boys engaged as apprentices and learners, respectively, in the iron and steel industry of Scotland, during each of the past three years.
§ Mr. HareSeparate figures are not available for apprentices and learners. 1354 The total numbers entering apprenticeships and learnerships were 355 in 1960, 431 in 1961 and 364 in 1962.
§ Mr. LawsonAs it is possible that the steel industry is the industry upon which Scotland's future most depends, is the right hon. Gentleman satisfied that the present position is satisfactory? There has been a decline in the last year. Is he in touch with the industry and doing everything he can, and will he tell us what he is doing to stimulate the industry into recruiting more youngsters?
§ Mr. HareOne can never be satisfied with these matters. I should like to see an improvement, but the House must realise that the overall apprenticeship situation in Scotland has improved. In 1962, the proportion of boys who obtained apprenticeships in all industries in Scotland was 38.9 per cent. compared with 36.2 per cent. in Great Britain as a whole.
§ 40. Mr. Smallasked the Minister of Labour what was the number of boys entering apprenticeships in the engineering and shipbuilding industry of Scotland during each of the past three years.
§ Mr. HareIn engineering and shipbuilding, 2,055 boys entered apprenticeships in 1960, 2,509 in 1961 and 2,407 in 1962. The number of boys entering apprenticeships in all industries in Scotland has risen from 10,733 in 1960 to 14.077 in 1962.
§ Mr. SmallDoes not the right hon. Gentleman recognise that the figures have been practically static over the period? Can he make some representations to the Board of Trade and similar Ministries with a view to encouraging an improvement in the shipbuilding industry?
§ Mr. HareThere has been a fairly small decline in engineering and shipbuilding, but despite the difficulties which Scotland is facing, I am glad to say that the overall number of young people entering apprenticeships has increased.
§ 41. Mr. J. Robertsonasked the Minister of Labour what was the number of boys employed as apprentices in the railway vehicle and wagon building industry in each of the past three years; and what proportion of these was engaged in Scotland.
§ Mr. HareFigures are not available of the numbers employed as apprentices. The numbers who entered apprenticeships were 1,068 in 1960, 1,106 in 1961 and 853 in 1962. The proportions of these in Scotland were 4.3 per cent., 4.5 per cent. and 4.5 per cent., respectively.
§ Mr. RobertsonDoes not the right hon. Gentleman agree that the figures indicate that Scotland is not having its proper share of this manufacturing industry? Would he approach his right hon. Friends to see whether something cannot be done in this regard and to see whether Scotland cannot get back some of the work of building railway wagons and railway vehicles?
§ Mr. HareI will certainly see that my right hon. Friend the Minister of Transport is made aware of what the hon. Gentleman has said.
§ 42. Mr. Steeleasked the Minister of Labour what was the number of boys engaged as apprentices in the telegraph and telephone apparatus manufacturing industry of Great Britain in each of the past three years; and what proportion of these was engaged in Scotland.
§ Mr. HareIn the telegraph and telephone apparatus manufacturing industry, 309 boys entered apprenticeships in 1960, 324 in 1961 and 242 in 1962. The proportions of these in Scotland were 1.0 per cent, 1.2 per cent. and 1.2 per cent., respectively.
§ Mr. SteeleIs not the right hon. Gentleman shocked by those figures? He has been telling us all afternoon that the Government would do all they could for Scotland. That has been his repeated cry. But while apprenticeships in the old industries have been going down, here is a new industry for which Scotland is getting only 1 per cent. of the apprentices. Will the right hon. Gentleman tell the President of the Board of Trade and the Treasury that that figure indicates a complete failure of the Distribution of Industry Act, and will he do something about it?
§ Mr. HareI do not think that it represents a failure of that sort. I have repeatedly said in the House, and I believe this to be the view of most hon. Members, that the Government want to see Scotland getting its all-round share of industries other than the merely traditional industries.
§ 43. Mr. Hannanasked the Minister of Labour what was the number of boys engaged as apprentices in scientific, surgical and photographic instruments industry in Great Britain in each of the past three years; and what proportion of these was employed in Scotland.
§ Mr. HareIn the scientific, surgical and photographic instruments industry, 903 boys entered apprenticeships in 1960, 831 in 1961 and 822 in 1962. The proportions of these in Scotland were 4.8 per cent., 7.5 per cent., and 6.9 per cent. respectively.
§ Mr. HannanDo not these figures show that there is a great need for an expansion of this industry in Scotland? Can the Minister confirm or deny whether new jobs in this industry were included in the list which the Patronage Secretary said that he had in his pocket when he was addressing a meeting of Young Unionists in Glasgow recently?
§ Mr. HareI do not know that that supplementary question arises from this Question. I do not know what my right hon. Friend said, but I will study what the hon. Gentleman has said.
§ 44. Mrs. Cullenasked the Minister of Labour what was the number of boys engaged as apprentices in the industry for the production of man-made fibres in Great Britain during each of the past three years; and what proportion of those was engaged in Scotland.
§ Mr. HareIn the production of manmade fibres 95 boys entered apprenticeships in 1960, 99 in 1961 and 76 in 1962. The proportions of these in Scotland were nil, 1 per cent. and nil respectively.
§ Mrs. CullenDo not the figures show that Scotland is not getting her fair share of these skilled trades? What proposals do the Government have for improving the prospects for young men in this growing industry?
§ Mr. HareIt is true that Scotland has a very small share of this industry, but Scotland's share of shipbuilding, or marine engineering, is between 17 and 20 per cent. of the national total.
§ Mrs. CullenThis happens to be a new industry.
§ 45. Mr. Manuelasked the Minister of Labour what was the number of boys engaged as apprentices in the railway industry in Scotland in each of the past three years.
§ Mr. HareIn the railway industry 43 boys entered apprenticeships in 1960, 47 in 1961 and 44 in 1962.
§ Mr. ManuelDoes not the right hon. Gentleman appreciate the significance of these very small figures? Could he break them down into even smaller figures showing the number recruited in each of the three years into the motive power grades? Should he not exercise his influence with the powers that be to ensure that we retain as much of the railway industry in Scotland as we can, so that the recruiting figures grow and do not fall into oblivion?
§ Mr. HareI will study what the hon. Gentleman has said and see whether I can give him a further breakdown on the lines he has suggested.
§ 46. Mr. Rossasked the Minister of Labour what was the number of boys engaged as apprentices in the industry for the manufacture of radio and other electronic apparatus in each of the past three years and what proportion of those boys was engaged in Scotland.
§ Mr. HareIn the manufacture of radio and other electronic apparatus 1,457 boys entered apprenticeships in 1960, 1,461 in 1961 and 1,539 in 1962. The proportions of these in Scotland were 4.9 per cent, HA per cent. and 10.7 per cent. respectively.
§ Mr. RossDo not even these figures, like all the others, show the absolute ineffectiveness and futility of all the Government's protestations that they are doing all they can, when in fact the Government are failing to get into Scotland the growing industries which Scotland needs?
§ Mr. HareI cannot agree with the hon. Gentleman. I have repeatedly told hon. Members this afternoon that it is our intention to see that Scotland gets a larger share of the growing industries.
§ Mr. RossWe are concerned not only with the Government's intentions but with what they have done. One of the right hon. Gentleman's Answers showed that this had been absolutely nothing, for the figure in that case was 0 per cent.
§ Mr. StodartWould not my right hon. Friend admit that there is at least one industry, the electronics industry, in which Scotland has had a greater share of its proportion of the growth of the United Kingdom economy in the last few years?
§ 48. Mr. Benceasked the Minister of Labour what was the number of boys engaged as apprentices in the motor vehicle and cycle manufacturing industry in Great Britain during each of the past three years; and what proportion of these was engaged in Scotland.
§ Mr. HareIn the motor vehicle and cycle manufacturing industry 2,442 boys entered apprenticeships in 1960, 2,629 in 1961 and 2,453 in 1962. The proportions of these in Scotland were 4.3 per cent., 4.6 per cont. and 5.1 per cent. respectively.
§ Mr. BenceIs the right hon. Gentle-aware that several of his colleagues, including the Secretary of State for Scotland, have been making speeches in Scotland and saying that Scotland needs greater diversification, but that unfortunately more skilled men are needed? Does the right hon. Gentleman believe that his statements of this afternoon show that his Ministry is helping to create more skilled men, when the Scottish figures of apprenticeships for most of the growing industries in the United Kingdom are so small?
§ Mr. HareWhat I hope is that the measures which the Government have in hand will be successful and that there will be a requirement for more skilled men, both young and old, in Scottish industry.
§ Mr. BenceBut do not the right hon. Gentleman's own figures show that not enough skilled men are being trained in Scotland?