HC Deb 06 March 1963 vol 673 cc364-5
Mr. Speaker

I do not know how we should best resume. Perhaps the hon. Member for Deptford (Sir L. Plummer) will be so good as to ask his Question again.

1. Sir L. Plummer

asked the Minister of Transport what legislation he proposes to introduce to limit the carrying by road vehicles of bulk loads now being transported by other means.

The Parliamentary Secretary to the Ministry of Transport (Mr. John Hay)

Repeating the Answer, Sir—"None, Sir."

Sir L. Plummer

What has happened has given me an opportunity to rehearse what I was going to say in the first place.

Is not that a shocking reply, in view of the report of the technical committee which has already advised the Minister of Transport that the traffic on our roads may be doubled or trebled in the next decade? Cannot the hon. Gentleman do something about the bulky loads which could go on the railways or the waterways and dangerous loads which should not be put on the roads but should be transferred to other means of conveyance?

Mr. Hay

Replying to the first part of the hon. Gentleman's prepared supplementary question, we are, of course, studying the views which have been put to us by the group under Sir Robert Hall which has now reported, and we shall take account of its views in our future policy. On the general question of the removal of bulk loads from road to rail, we have always taken the view that it is the desires and wishes of the customers, which really count here, and it is our job to provide a sufficiently developed transport system both by road and by rail to meet their likely requirements and needs.

Mr. Wingfield Digby

Will my hon. Friend consider making a charge for the cost of the police escort in these cases? I suppose that this would be done by the Home Office. Will my hon. Friend make representations to the Home Secretary so that there might, at least, be some discouragement to the increase of these loads which lead to a tremendous amount of traffic congestion out of all proportion to their size?

Mr. Hay

With respect, I think that my hon. Friend is thinking more of heavy and wide indivisible loads, whereas the Question asked by the hon. Member for Deptford (Sir L. Plummer) relates to loads of bulk, that is to say, bulk quantities. The point about police escort has been looked at before. We have always taken the view that it would be an unwise imposition to make.

Mr. Mellish

But should not the Ministry of Transport be concerned with this sort of thing? There is the example that 800,000 tons of coal normally transported by lighter on the River Thames are, from 1st April, I understand, to be transported by road. Is not this the concern of the Minister, or does he say that it is not a matter for Her Majesty's Government?

Mr. Hay

I did not say that at all. As regards that case, I understand that the North Thames Gas Board has not yet reached a decision, and my right hon. Friend has asked to be kept informed of developments.