HC Deb 06 March 1963 vol 673 cc549-51
Mr. Whitelaw

I beg to move, in page, 10, line 1, to leave out from "may" to "against" in line 3 and to insert: ,as respects premises to which this Act applies or any class of such premises, make special regulations for protecting persons working in such premises or, as the case may be, in such premises of that class". There is also a consequential Amendment to this Amendment, in page 10, line 26, and perhaps it would be convenient for the House to discuss the two together.

Mr. Deputy-Speaker

Yes.

Mr. Whitelaw

The first Amendment has two purposes. It makes clear that the Minister may make special regulations for securing the health and safety of persons working in any classes of premises to which the Act applies". As drafted at present, the Bill refers to premises … to which the Act applies", and we are indebted to the hon. Member for Derby, North (Mr. MacDermot) for drawing our attention to the point. The first Amendment also has the effect of extending the provisions afforded by the Regulations already made not only to persons employed to work in premises but to any persons working in premises … to which this Act applies". As I explained before, this would cover persons sent by another employer to work on premises, such as a delivery man. It would also cover self-employed persons working on the premises.

The second Amendment is consequential on the first, and I do not think anyone would want me to comment on it.

Amendment agreed to.

Mr. Whitelaw

I beg to move, in page 10, line 22, to leave out from "thereof" to the end of line 24.

Perhaps we might also discuss with this Amendment the one in page 11, line 8.

Mr. Deputy-Speaker

Yes.

Mr. Whitelaw

In moving this Amendment, I think, perhaps, I should explain that we believe that we need the power to modify Clause 15 which requires every dangerous part of machinery to be securely fenced. This might entirely prevent the use of a particular machine, for example a bacon slicer. The present wording would enable regulations to be made "modifying" all or any of the provisions in Clause 15, and we are not satisfied that this is sufficient.

The hon. Member for Derby, North (Mr. MacDermot) will remember that I accepted an Amendment of his in Committee deleting the words "or exclusion". We accept that position and stand by it. In making regulations dealing with these matters, however, one might first wish to modify the existing safeguards and then to specify alternative measures which provide the required degree of safety but which allow the machine to be used. For that reason, we do not think that the power to "modify" the provisions of Clause 15 is sufficient. We want to be able to add to the safeguards, if that were necessary, and this Amendment now provides a new subsection (9) which will give us the power to make regulations which may be either in addition to or in lieu of a requirement imposed in Clause 15.

I think I should just make clear that the words "in lieu of" really mean the purpose which I have in mind of substituting either an equivalent or a better safeguard for one which one might happen to be removing. I hope that, with these words, the House will accept the Amendment as a working arrangement.

Amendment agreed to.

Further Amendments made: In page 10, line 26, after "applies", insert: (or, where the regulations relate to a class of such premises, for use in such premises of that class) In page 11, line 8, at end insert: (9) A requirement imposed by virtue of subsection (3) (b) of this section with respect to the safeguarding of dangerous parts of machinery may he expressed to take effect in addition to or in lieu of a requirement imposed by section 15 of this Act.—[Mr. Whitelaw.]