§ 24. Mr. Prenticeasked the Minister of Labour how many school-leavers began apprenticeships in the first four months of this year; and how many did so in the same period last year.
§ Mr. Whitelaw29,000 boys and 5,600 girls in January to April, 1963, compared with 39,200 boys and 7,700 girls in the first four months of 1962.
§ Mr. PrenticeDoes the Parliamentary Secretary realise that this is a very serious decline compared with the figures of the previous two years which follows on the publication of the Government's White Paper in December? Will the hon. Gentleman comment on two points? First, on the statement made recently by the chairman of the Industrial Training Council that he feels that employers are hanging back waiting for the Industrial Training Bill, and if so, what are 932 the Government doing to discourage them from doing this? Secondly, is this not one more unfortunate result of the economic stagnation of the country during the last 12 months due to the Government's policy?
§ Mr. WhitelawOn the last point, I think it is perfectly clear that the economy is expanding again now and that this is a excellent opportunity for employers to take on more apprentices. As to the first part of the hon. Gentleman's supplementary question, I think it is clear that the position in 1962 was encouraging and that employers were taking on more apprentices. It may be that some have decided to sit back waiting for the Industrial Training Bill and the White Paper. If that is so, they are very unwise. So far from relaxing their efforts, there can be no doubt that it will pay them to do everything possible to extend and improve their training arrangements in preparation for the time when the proposals in the White Paper on Industrial Training are implemented.
§ 29. Mr. Willisasked the Minister of Labour if he will make a statement on the prospects of apprenticeships for school-leavers in Scotland; and what steps the Government will take to improve these prospects.
§ Mr. WhitelawWhilst in the early months of this year the proportion of boys obtaining apprenticeships in Scotland showed a decline as compared with 1962, the position has recently changed. In May 35.6 per cent. entered apprenticeships compared with 34.0 per cent. in May 1962. I hope that this reversal of the trend will continue.
§ Mr. WillisIs the hon. Gentleman aware that he has not answered the second part of the Question? Is he satisfied with these figures? Surely the Government ought to be doing something to try to see that they are improved.
§ Mr. WhitelawCertainly it would be quite wrong to be satisfied with the figures of apprenticeships because we all want to see more of them. As I said to the hon. Member for East Ham, North (Mr. Prentice), we have the Government's proposal on industrial training and we want to do everything we can to encourage employers to take on more 933 apprentices and not to wait for the Industrial Training Bill to be enacted. The hon. Gentleman can do much in Scotland to help us in this. I know that the hon. Gentleman likes comparisons with England, particularly when the comparison with England is a good one from Scotland's point of view. In the first five months of 1963, 35.2 per cent. of boys obtained apprenticeships in Scotland compared with 28.1 per cent. in Great Britain.
§ Mr. RankinPercentages are sometimes deceptive. Could the hon. Gentleman turn the percentages that he referred to in the first instance for Scotland into actual numbers?
§ Mr. WhitelawYes, I can do that. The figures of new entrants for employment in apprenticeships from January to May, 1963, for Scotland are as follows: boys 4,657; girls 513.