NUCLEAR TESTS (Hansard, 18 June 1963)

§ Q1. Mr. Driberg
asked the Prime Minister if he will now make a statement on the progress made towards a nuclear test ban agreement.

§ Q6. Mr. A. Henderson
asked the Prime Minister whether he will make a statement on his latest exchange of letters with Mr. Khrushchev, with a view to ending the deadlock at Geneva.

§ Q11. Mr. Shinwell
asked the Prime Minister for what purpose Lord Hailsham is proposing to pay an official visit to Moscow,

§ Q14. Mr. Hector Hughes
asked the Prime Minister, in view of the failure of agreement between the Powers recently in conference at Geneva and his consequent correspondence with Mr. Khrushchev, if he will now invite Mr. Khrushchev to London to discuss these outstanding problems before the Summer Recess.

§ The Prime Minister (Mr. Harold Macmillan)
As the House will be aware, the result of the recent correspondence which President Kennedy and I have had with Mr. Khrushchev has been an agreement that our special representatives will go to Moscow in mid-July to discuss further the possibility of a test ban treaty. President Kennedy and I have agreed that this is the best way to proceed. My noble Friend the Lord President will be my special representative on this occasion.

§ Mr. Driberg
Does the right hon. Gentleman realise how much we appreciate the courtesy with which he has tried to answer so many questions on this difficult subject during his period 218 of office? Could he say whether it might not help to expedite agreement on a test ban if he were to adopt the suggestion in Question No. Q.15 of making a similar declaration to that made last week by President Kennedy—that we would not be the first Power to resume atmospheric tests?

§ The Prime Minister
I think that there is a Question on that later.

§ Mr. Driberg
It may not be reached.

§ The Prime Minister
I have to be careful, in all courtesy to the hon. Member who has put down that Question, but without prejudice to that, I can assure the hon. Member for Barking (Mr. Driberg) that we are in sympathy with those ideas. Without my being too optimistic about them, I hope that these conversations mark a step forward. Mr. Khrushchev has accepted the proposal we made to him in correspondence, and I hope very much that this will help to bring the matter to a fruitful conclusion.

§ Mr. Henderson
With a view to furthering the projected conversations, is it intended that British and American scientists should discuss with Soviet scientists the conflict of evidence on the need for on-site inspections, having regard to the existence of what are called "black boxes" and also the minimum number of such inspections which will be required?

§ The Prime Minister
All that, of course, will be relevant, and the scientists' views are available. But my feeling is that this is a question of the will to reach agreement. If there is the political will on both sides, I feel certain that some solution of the so-called technical problems can be found.

§ Mr. Shinwell
Does the right hon. Gentleman realise that we fully understand that he has set his heart on reaching an agreement on this very intricate problem, and that we hope that his noble Friend will meet with success? I say that quite sincerely. But does he expect Lord Hailsham to be any more successful in Moscow than he has been in the North-East?

§ The Prime Minister
I do not know whether than question is meant to be helpful or not. This is probably one of 219 the most important problems we could try to solve. It has been a very long and difficult path. I regard acceptance by Mr. Khrushchev of the proposal President Kennedy and I made in our last communication as at least a helpful sign. I regard the date he has chosen as a good sign, too, because Mr. Khrushchev also has some problems to resolve. I think that there is a good chance. This is not intended to be one of these elaborate Geneva-type negotiations. It is intended to be really a meeting of the President's representative and my representative, to say, "Can we reach an agreement? Have we the will to reach agreement? Can we not give instructions that agreement shall be reached?" If the will is there, then we can achieve our purpose.

Mr. H. Wilson
Everyone welcomed the announcement last week and welcomed even more, as did the Soviet leaders, the very forward-looking statement of President Kennedy. Does not the Prime Minister agree that one reason for the long delay has been that we have all been working at too low a level in this matter and that it is essential to get a direct confrontation with the Soviet leaders to see exactly how their minds are working? In these circumstances, will the right hon. Gentleman tell the House what proposals he has made for a personal meeting with Mr. Khrushchev?

§ The Prime Minister
The right hon. Gentleman and the House know that I have worked at this fairly steadily for a long time. There have been great setbacks. We had a personal meeting, which failed for another reason. We have been working towards reaching agreement and this plan of sending emissaries is to help sufficiently to clear the ground so that it might then be possible to reach an agreement on the basis of all the Heads of Government concerned being ready to agree a plan which the whole world would welcome.

§ Mr. Hector Hughes
In view of the unsettled and unsatisfactory conditions of world trade, industry, commerce, employment and peace, does not the Prime Minister think that it would be advisable to invite Mr. Khrushchev to a conference as I have indicated in my Question No. Q14 before the long delay of the forth-coming Recess?

§ The Prime Minister
That is really rather another question. I admit the slightly wider view of the hon. and learned Gentleman, but the immediate question, I think, is to see whether we can reach an agreement on one thing. If we could get that, there would be at least a foundation on which many hopeful developments could follow.

§ Mr. P. Noel-Baker
Would the Prime Minister let us have in a White Paper the recent correspondence with Mr. Khrushchev, as he did last year with the correspondence about the Committee of Eighteen, which proved to be very useful?

§ The Prime Minister
No, Sir. I should like to ask to be excused from doing that at the present time. My experience with correspondence of this kind is that when it is published it is not helpful. Why I am buoyed up with hope is that both sides have agreed that their correspondence shall be confidential.