HC Deb 26 July 1963 vol 681 cc1994-6

Lords Amendment: In page 30, line 9, at end insert: (8) Section 22 of this Act (except so far as relating to operations or processes) shall, with the substitution for references to the occupier of the premises, of references to the owner of the building, have effect in relation to a common part of a building to which this section applies, and to machinery, plant, equipment and appliances used in such a part, as it has effect in relation to premises to which this Act applies, and to machinery, plant, equipment and appliances used in such premises. (9) Where the occupier of premises comprised in a building in England or Wales to which this section applies is the defendant to a complaint made under section 22 of this Act with respect to the premises on the ground specified in subsecion (1)(a) or (b) of that section a copy of the summons issued in consequence of the making of the complaint together with a notice stating that he will be entitled to appear at the hearing of the complaint shall be served on the owner of the building in like manner as a summons falling to be served on him is required to be served and he shall, if he appears at the hearing, be deemed to be a defendant to the complaint; and the powers of the court under section 55(1) of the Magistrates' Courts Act 1952 shall be deemed to include power, whatever adjudication the court makes on the complaint, to order any of the parties to pay the whole or part of the costs of either or both of the others. (10) Where the occupier of premises comprised in a building in Scotland to which this section applies is a defender in a summary application made under section 22 of this Act in respect of the premises on the ground specified in subsection (l)(a) or (b) of that section, a copy of the application together with notice of the place, date and time fixed for the hearing of it shall be served on the owner of the building and he shall thereafter be a party to the proceedings.

Mr. Whitelaw

I beg to move, That this House doth agree with the Lords in the said Amendment.

The object of the new subsection (8) is to enable the machinery of making a complaint under Clause 22—"Dangerous conditions and practices"—to be applied to the "common parts" of buildings to which Clause 42 applies. In other words, this Amendment would enable an authority to make a complaint to a magistrate's court about the dangerous conditions of, for example, a lift, stairway, or boiler in the "common parts", and references to the owner of the building are substituted for references to the occupier of the premises. The subsection limits the procedure to paragraphs (a) and (b) of Clause 22 since the operations and processes mentioned in paragraph (c) are carried on only in the premises and not in the "common parts".

The new subsection (9) provides that when a complaint is made by an enforcing authority under Clause 22 against the occupier of premises in a building to which Clause 42 applies, a copy of the summons shall be served on the owner of the building who may, if he wishes, appear at the court hearing. An owner will often have an interest in the matter which is the subject of the complaint and it is only reasonable that he should be given an opportunity to appear at the hearing if he so desires. This new subsection arises from a helpful suggestion made by my hon. Friend the Member for Crosby (Mr. Graham Page) when the Bill was in Committee.

Subsection (10) is a Scottish adaptation of the new provision in subsection (9).

Question put and agreed to.

Lords Amendment: In line 21, at end insert: and section 29(6) of this Act shall apply to the copy instead of to the certificate".

Mr. Whitelaw

I beg to move, That this House doth agree with the Lords in the said Amendment.

There is an identical Amendment to Clause 43, page 32, line 48, and perhaps we can discuss them together.

Clause 29(6) requires a fire certificate issued with respect to any premises to be kept in the premises so long as it is in force. In the case of buildings to which Clause 42 or Clause 43 applies, however, the fire certificate has to be sent to the owner of a building or the owner of the part of a building in which the premises are situated, and a copy of the fire certificate has to be sent to the occupier of the premises concerned.

Generally speaking, the fire certificate itself will be kept by owners in their own offices which may often be at a distance from the building which inspectors will be visiting for the purpose of enforcing the Bill. It is therefore necessary to adapt the requirement in Clause 29(6) to provide that the copy of the fire certificate shall be kept in premises comprised in buildings to which Clauses 42 and 43 apply.

Mr. Graham Page

This is a recognition of a point which I made in Committee—that it was rather silly to put the original certificate in the premises which might be burned down and that it was far better to put a copy there and keep the certificate somewhere else. This principle has been recognised in the case of multiple occupation premises and I regret that there was not an Amendment which would allow a copy to be exhibited.

Question put and agreed to.

Lords Amendment: In page 30, line 23, after "applies" insert: of section 28 of this Act, for a contravention, in relation to such premises".

Mr. Whitelaw

I beg to move, That this House doth agree with the Lords in the said Amendment.

It might be convenient to discuss at the same time an identical Amendment in Clause 43, page 33, line 2.

Mr. Speaker

If the House so pleases.

Mr. Whitelaw

Clause 28 requires all premises under the Bill to be provided with adequate means of escape in the event of fire. While the Clause is cast in general terms, its primary object is to require the provision of means of escape in premises not subject to the certification procedure in Clause 29. It is expected that there will be premises of this kind in buildings to which Clause 42 or Clause 43 applies, for example an office situated in a block of flats.

The purpose of the Amendments is simply to make it clear that the owners of Clause 42 or Clause 43 buildings are responsible for the provision of means of escape in respect of these premises, in much the same way as they are responsible for providing means of escape from premises subject to the certification procedure.

Question put and agreed to.