Clause 89.—(REPEALS AND SAVINGS.) (Hansard, 25 July 1963)

§ Miss Pike
I beg to move, That this House doth agree with the Lords in the said Amendment.
I think that it might be convenient if with this Lords Amendment I could describe the Lords Amendments in page 120, line 28, in page 121, line 45, in page 122, line 1, and in page 127, line 18.
Two of these Amendments enable an election to be held on or after the date of the passing of the Bill in respect of a casual vacancy occurring before that date. In the Bill as passed by the Commons paragraphs 6(1) and 10 of Schedule 3 prevent an election being held after the passing of the Bill in respect of any office which is to disappear after 1st April, 1965. But Section 67(1) of the Local Government Act, 1933, and Section 1930 42(1) of the London Government Act, 1939, in providing for an election to be held within 30 days of the date on which the High Court or the local authority declare the office vacant or on which notice of the vacancy is given in writing by two local government electors, requires all the arrangements for holding an election to be put in hand in respect of a casual vacancy occurring before the Bill is passed.
If the Bill receives the Royal Assent on, say, 31st July then, unless the Amendments were made, an election which was to be held on 1st August could not be held, and there would have been work and expense for nothing. The Amendments therefore provide for the elections to be held as if the London Government Bill had not been passed and for the councillors elected to fill the casual vacancies to remain in office until 1st April, 1965, which is the day on which the councillors mentioned in paragraphs 6(1) and 10 would have gone out of office.
The effect of the other Amendments is that elections held on or after the Bill is passed to fill casual vacancies which have occurred before the Bill is passed will be conducted as if the Bill had not been passed.
The final Amendment is a drafting one to make it clear that this reference to councillor elected for any such electoral area means a councillor elected for an electoral area of Hertfordshire or Chigwell which is wholly or partly in Greater London.

§ Mr. Lubbock
A casual vacancy has almost been caused by the speed at which the hon. Lady rushed through these Amendments. Suppose a councillor resigns his office after the passing of this Act? Is there a prohibition on a by-election to fill that vacancy? Similarly, if an alderman or a councillor dies after the passing of this Act, is there a prohibition on an election to fill the vacancy? This will become relevant, because a considerable time will elapse between now and the setting up of the new authorities, and there may well be a considerable depletion in the membership of a local authority. All I want the hon. Lady to make clear is the question whether there is provision for by-elections to be held after the passing of the Act.

§ Miss Pike
I am afraid that the hon. Member has had some difficulty in understanding me. I apologise for having gone fast. I felt that this was probably a technical matter, and that the House would not wish to be delayed for too long. In the case of death there is a prohibition on the election.

§ Mr. Lubbock
And in the case of resignation?

§ Miss Pike
And in the case of resignation.

§ Mr. M. Stewart
What would happen if all, or very nearly all, the councillors of a particular council died? What would happen to the council?

§ Mr. Barter
Will my hon. Friend also take into account the possible existence of aldermen on the council?

§ Mr. Skeffington
While this information is being obtained perhaps I can put a point. I do not think that this can be right, so far as I have followed what the hon. Lady has said. As my hon. Friend pointed out, it could so happen that, through resignation, removal and death, there was nobody left on the council. What would happen? This is an extraordinary provision, introduced at the last moment. We should be told a little more about it.

§ Mr. Reynolds
This is another example of the haste with which this legislation has been prepared, and of the fact that we have not had enough time on the Bill in Committee or here. The hon. Lady says that if a councillor dies or resigns, if two electors have given notice before the Royal Assent is given the Amendment will provide that an election can be held afterwards, whereas otherwise that would not be possible. That applies to councillors, but what about aldermen? Does the same sort of position arise with them? There should be provision for two electors to give notice if an alderman resigns four or five days before the Royal Assent is given to the Bill. Can we have an assurance that this provision will apply to aldermen as well as to councillors?

§ Miss Pike
I believe that in the case of aldermen and councillors the prohibition remains in the case of resignation or death. As the hon. Member for Fulham (Mr. M. Stewart) has said, there is the 1932 possibility of another Black Death or something of that sort, but in the case of such an emergency the Minister would have to make a transitional order to cover the situation.

§ Mr. Mellish
This is very complicated. The death of a councillor or two may affect the control of the council. What is to happen then? Is the hon. Lady saying that there will be no election, and that political control can change?

§ Miss Pike
It may, in an emergency, and it is within the Minister's powers to make transitional orders.

§ Mr. Corfield
I beg to move, That this House doth agree with the Lords in the said Amendment.
This Amendment deals with the problem of construing public and local Acts which refer to or are based on other Acts repealed by the Bill. The effect of the Amendment is that where the Bill repeals a London enactment as a consequence either of making provision on the same points or of applying the provincial code, references in other and un-repealed enactments are to be construed as references to the corresponding provision made in the Bill.

§ Mr. Corfield
I beg to move, That this House doth agree with the Lords in the said Amendment.
1933 This Amendment is the result of some concern which was expressed in Committee about the management of commons. My right hon. Friend promised to try to find words to allay the fears of the conservators of commons, and particularly the Wimbledon and Putney conservators, from whom the problem originally arose. The Amendment is designed to meet those fears. It has been shown to the conservators, who agree that it meets the problem, although it will be of general application. I hope that the House agrees that the agreement of the conservators of commons gives some guarantee that it meets the point at issue.

§ Mr. Lubbock
When this point was raised in Committee it was the right hon. Lady the Member for Chislehurst (Dame Patricia Hornsby-Smith) who was particularly concerned about the conservators of commons in her constituency. Can the Parliamentary Secretary tell us whether the Amendment meets the points which were raised by her on that occasion?

§ Sir Hugh Linstead (Putney)
I thank my right hon. and hon. Friends for having met the point which was put to them in Committee. The conservators of Wimbledon and Putney Commons and I think, too, of the commons in the area mentioned by my right hon. Friend the Member for Chistlehurst (Dame Patricia Hornsby-Smith) are satisfied with and grateful for the Amendment.