HC Deb 25 July 1963 vol 681 cc1861-3

Lords Amendment: In page 57, line 10 at end insert: an area defined by an order made by the Minister as being".

7.0 p.m.

Sir K. Joseph

I beg to move, That this House doth agree with the Lords in the said Amendment.

This Amendment and the next Amendment are drafting Amendments, but they alter the drafting considerably and perhaps I should explain them. As the Bill is at present drawn, the procedure by which the Greater London Council gradually vests in itself the whole of the main sewerage and sewage disposal works in its area was seen to be in three stages, starting with an original sewerage area which is defined in Clause 37(8) and growing gradually as the Council decides to vest different parts of the main sewerage and sewage disposal works until it covers the whole of its sewerage area. As it grew, so the Minister was making Regulations to keep pace with it. What the Amendment does is to provide that, instead of going by three stages, the definition of the sewerage area of the Greater London Council will be made throughout by Ministerial order. The work of the Council will depend upon the survey it is making and on its assessment of what is main sewerage.

Mr. Skeffington

This seems, on the face of it, to be a sensible Amendment. I know part of the background to this. It is clear that the area ought to be defined by the Minister, because, as we said in our discussions elsewhere, this is an extraordinarily complicated system. It has grown up over many years. That is why I attach considerable importance to subsection (3), which means that those who are developing or buying property will have access to maps and documents showing where the sewers are. This is not much of a problem in some towns, but in the London area it is a very important one. I assume that the expression that the map or other document shall be open to inspection by members of the public means during normal office hours. I did not table an Amendment, because I assumed that that is what it means. We have known cases where the public go on Saturday mornings because some part of the council's offices are open but find that they cannot have access to the information. No doubt this could be dealt with by an announcement, or indeed by the Minister's favourite device—regulations.

Question put and agreed to.

Subsequent Lords Amendment agreed to.

Lords Amendment: in page 57, line 30, after "sewer" insert: primarily serving the sewerage area of the Greater London Council".

Sir K. Joseph

I beg to move, That this House doth agree with the Lords in the said Amendment.

The Bill as at present drawn requires the Minister to settle disputes between neighbouring sewerage authorities. The Bill is so drawn that the Minister might be required to settle such disputes all over the country. This Amendment and the following Amendment provide that the Minister's settlement of disputes for this purpose shall be in the Greater London area.

Question put and agreed to.

Subsequent Lords Amendments agreed to.