HC Deb 11 July 1963 vol 680 cc1388-90
6. Mr. Awbery

asked the Minister of Education following his decision to set aside the award of the Burnham Committee regarding teachers' salaries, what consultations have taken place with the teachers' organisations and with education committees regarding future negotiating machinery for the profession; and if, with a view to restoring the confidence of teachers, he will re-establish a system of collective bargaining.

Sir E. Boyle

I have already had discussions with representatives of six of the bodies concerned, and have arranged to see most of the remainder before the end of this month. With regard to the second part of the Question, I would remind the hon. Member that I have not permanently disestablished the existing system of settling teachers' salaries. But many people, including hon. Members on both sides of this House, have expressed the view that present procedures are not altogether satisfactory and should be improved. We are now discussing ways and means of doing this.

Mr. Awbery

Whatever the Minister may say about his action in the past, is it not a fact that it destroyed the negotiating machinery, which has lasted for 40 years, and also destroyed confidence in the negotiating machinery which apparently was intended to be used as a precedent in other industries? What is he now doing to create confidence in a new machinery? What assurance is he to give that the procedure of varying a decision will not be adopted in future?

Sir E. Boyle

I respect the hon. Member's sincerity in this matter, but when we debated this subject for the first time at the end of March, therewere hon. Members on both sides of the House who felt that the existing system was not altogether satisfactory. The answer to the second part of his supplementary question is that some 17 bodies have representation on one or more of the three Burnham Committees. As a start, I am anxious that they should all have a full opportunity to give me their views on what changes may be desirable, and at this stage it would be better if I did not comment further than that.

Mr. Lubbock

As the Minister hopes to complete his discussions with representatives of the teachers before the end of July, can he promise to make a statement to the House about those discussions before the Recess?

Sir E. Boyle

I hope very nearly to complete the first round of discussions by the end of July, but I shall not then be ready to make a statement because there will be a great deal more thought and time to be given to this matter before any public announcement can usefully be made.

Mr. G. Thomas

Will the right hon. Gentleman give the House an assurance that if agreement with the teachers on this important matter is not reached, he will not impose a new machinery of his own? Will he give an undertaking that it is only an agreed machinery which he himself will accept?

Sir E. Boyle

I can certainly give the hon. Member an undertaking that I have gone into these discussions with every hope and confidence that we can reach an agreed machinery, but I think that it is better that we should proceed with our discussions in confidence as partners in the education service until we have some definite progress to report.