HC Deb 04 July 1963 vol 680 cc559-60
3. Mr. Clive Bossom

asked the Minister of Education if he will institute a separate building programme designed solely for the replacement of obsolete rural primary schools.

The Minister of Education (Sir Edward Boyle)

No, Sir. I hope that the resources available for school building will enable steady progress to be made with the replacement of obsolete primary schools, including rural schools. It would not help, however, to have a separate programme.

Mr. Bossom

Would it not take about 10 years for a county like Herefordshire to catch up with its primary school building programme? Will there not be nearly 800,000 new places required in primary schools in England and Wales by 1972? Could not my right hon. Friend put much more emphasis on the building of these primary schools, especially in rural areas?

Sir E. Boyle

I have never made any secret to the House of the fact that I know a great deal remains to be done, both in the country districts and in the towns. During the five years between 1960 and 1965 we are concentrating on completing the reorganisation and making a considerable start with secondary school replacements. But I quite accept the fact that there is a measure of work to be done on primary school replacements in later periods.

Mr. Hilton

Will the right hon. Gentleman have another look at his hon. Friend's suggestion? Is he aware that in many rural areas, such as Norfolk, where many of our schools are completely outdated, there could be a tremendous saving both in money and teacher-manpower if new village schools were built and many of the old slum schools done away with? Will he seriously look at the matter again?

Sir E. Boyle

The hon. Gentleman will realise that the Question relates specifically to the idea of having a separate programme. I believe that in drawing up the building programmes of authorities it is wise practice to give attention, as I try to do within the resources available, to the order of priority given by the authorities themselves.

Mr. P. Browne

Is not my right hon. Friend aware—I am sure he is—that we have this problem all over the country? Is not his answer rather odd when he says that there will be sufficient resources, in view of the fact that the Devon Education Committee has had a cut from £902,000 to £63,000 in its building programme for 1963–64?

Sir E. Boyle

I said that a great deal remains to be done. I did not use the words"sufficient resources". I said that I thought that within the total resources available it was important to give attention to the priority given by the local authorities themselves, and that I doubted whether a separate programme, as proposed in the Question, was the right idea.