§ 5. Mr. E. Johnsonasked the Secretary of State for Air how much pension, including all increases, is received by a 55-years-old widow of a wing commander who retired after maximum service in 1958 and died on 3rd November, 1958; and how much it would be if her husband had retired this year and died today.
§ Mr. H. Fraser£233 a year and £380 a year respectively.
§ Mr. JohnsonIs my right hon. Friend aware that the widow of a chief executive officer in the Civil Service who retired this year and died today would receive much the same pension as the widow of a wing commander, but if both husbands had died on 3rd November, 1958, the widow of the civil servant would receive £79 more? Does my right hon. Friend think that it is right that widows of officers whose husbands died before 4th November, 1958, should be left on this obsolete code while, at the same time, we are being constantly assured that there must be equal treatment for all public servants?
§ Mr. FraserAs my hon. Friend knows, this is a most complex question. The rate of pension is governed by the conditions that applied at the date of widowhood. This necessarily involves line-drawing as between pre-Grigg and post-Grigg widows. However, I should like to point out that, owing to the Pensions (Increase) Act, 1962, the theoretical widow to whom my hon. Friend referred received a pension starting at £180 which, by a variety of increases, has now reached £233.
§ Dame Irene WardAm I to understand from my right hon. Friend's Answer that he does not think that the present arrangements for elderly Service widows are 1231 satisfactory? If I am right in my interpretation, when does he intend to ensure that the Cabinet understands that a great many hon. Members are absolutely annoyed beyond grief at the continuous plight of these elderly widows? When does my right hon. Friend propose to do something about the matter?
§ Mr. FraserThere has been an improvement, but I would point out that this goes wider across the field than Service widows. A whole variety of pensioners are involved and this is a wide problem to which I cannot possibly give a satisfactory answer at Question Time.
§ 6. Mr. E. Johnsonasked the Secretary of State for Air how much Service pension would be received by the widow, who is between 40 and 60 years of age, of a sergeant in the Royal Air Force discharged after 22 years' service before 1st September, 1950, between 1st September, 1950, and 4th November, 1958, assuming in both cases that widowhood occurred before 4th November, 1958, and at the present time, respectively.
§ Mr. H. FraserNone, none and one-third of her husband's pension or £1 2s. 5d. a week whichever is the greater.
§ Mr. JohnsonCan my right hon. Friend give the number of widows in the first two categories or, if the figures are not available, can he find them out? What consideration has been given to doing something to help those widows who get no pension whatever although their husbands had very long service in the Forces?
§ Mr. FraserIf I may, I will certainly write to my hon. Friend on the first point. On the second point, I must point out that in 1953 there was the first measure of improvement made for 100 years; and it was made by the present Government.
§ Dame Irene WardOwing to us.
§ Mr. FraserIn addition, there has been wide improvement made since 1958; and to say that our record is bad would be incorrect because, on the whole, our record has been remarkably good. Of course, there are anomalies and these are being considered by my right hon. Friend the Minister of Defence.
§ 19. Commander Purseyasked the Secretary of State for Air if he will state the increases in the ordinary armed forces widows' pensions, on 1st January, 1963, for the over-60 but under-70 widow of a group captain, a sergeant and an aircraftman, pensioned under the 1950 Code, where the husband gave full-time service since 31st August, 1950, bereavement occurred after 4th November, 1958, and rates drawn are maximum rates.
§ Mr. H. Fraser£42 5s., £13 Os. 10d. and £9 bs. 11d. a year respectively.
§ Commander PurseyWhen will the Service Ministers and the Minister of Defence produce a worth-while pension scheme for the widows of other ranks, more commensurate with the present-day Tory, expensive, affluent society and give these poor widows more pennies and halfpennies before giving further large increases, as advocated by hon. Members opposite, to senior officers' widows?
§ Mr. FraserI must remind the hon. and gallant Member that these are occupational and not subsistence pensions and must be paid on the basis of service and of rank. I would also remind him that the last Pensions (Increase) Measure was the most costly and generous in the history of this kind of legislation. In particular, we introduced the aged-70 supplement for the benefit of the most elderly.
§ 20. Commander Purseyasked the Secretary of State for Air if he will state the increases in ordinary armed forces pensions on 1st January, 1963, for an over-60 but under-70 group captain, a sergeant and an aircraftman, pensioned under the 1950 Code, where the rates drawn are maximum rates.
§ Mr. H. Fraser£126 10s., £38 18s., and £27 12s. a year respectively.
§ Commander PurseyWhen will the Service Ministers and the Minister of Defence produce a pension increase scheme for other ranks with the same increases as for the "brass hats". observing that the aircraftman has to shop in the same markets and suffers from the same cost-of-living increases but the lowest pensions get the lowest increases, in pennies and halfpennies, as they did in the time of William IV and Queen Victoria? 1233 Is it not high time to stop this nonsense of talking about the good pension increases on a percentage basis when the average pension of an aircraftman is £1 a day and an N.C.O.'s 30s., which was what was decided upon after the First World War in April, 1919?
§ Mr. FraserI thank the hon. and gallant Member for his remarks, but I must point out that before 1953 and 1958 a great many ex-Service men received no pensions at all.