§ 38. Mr. Frank Allaunasked the Minister of Pensions and National Insurance if he is aware that roughly half as many people over retirement age entitled to National Assistance as are at present receiving help are not applying for it; if he has studied the evidence sent to him on this matter by the hon. Member for Salford, East; and what steps he proposes to take to help such people.
§ The Minister of Pensions and National Insurance (Mr. Niall Macpherson)I understand the the hon. Gentleman is referring to Mrs. Cole's report on "The Economic Circumstances of Old People". For reasons which I gave to the House on 26th November last, I think that the calculations in the report have to be treated with reserve. The National Assistance Board is, in various ways, doing all it can to ensure that no one who is entitled to help from it remains unaware of the fact, but the Board cannot, of course, compel anyone to apply.
§ Mr. AllaunIs the Minister aware that this survey by Mrs. Dorothy Cole Wedderburn, a highly-distinguished research officer, was based on 1,300 interviews in different parts of the country, and shows that at least half a million people entitled to National Assistance are not claiming it? If the right hon. Gentleman does not accept her figures, will he institute a Government survey? Is not the real solution of this problem such a substantial increase in retirement pensions that National Assistance is no longer necessary?
§ Mr. MacphersonThe actual document to which the hon. Member refers was based on 400 interviews. I am aware, of course, that Mrs. Cole Wedderburn thinks that the remainder of the 898 interviews carried out—I think the total should be 1,078—bear out the original conclusions, but the fact is that with a sample of that sort, and given the point, as the Report recognises, that resources could not be determined with complete reliability, the conclusions have to be accepted with some reserve. Of course, I do not for a moment disagree that a number of people are actually entitled to National Assistance but are not getting it, but we are doing all we can to get them to apply, and I shall be grateful for the fullest co-operation in getting them to do so.
§ Mr. John HallIs my right hon. Friend aware that a certain number of very deserving people are deterred from going to the National Assistance Board because they still think, quite wrongly, that there is something shameful about it? Will he not again consider a suggestion I have made on several occasions, namely, to change the name of the Board and call it the Supplementary Allowances Board, or something like that, and so take away a stigma that still, apparently, attaches to the word "Assistance"?
§ Mr. MacphersonThe name has already been changed once, which makes it a little doubtful how much benefit would be derived from changing it again.
§ Mr. HiltonIs the right hon. Gentleman aware that some old people who are entitled to National Assistance, and have it awarded them, are returning it to the Department because it is totally inadequate? Is he aware that one of my constituents returned the amount awarded—1s. 6d.—which was totally inadequate? Does not that prove the case for increasing the benefits?
§ Mr. MacphersonThat is not even the evidence that Mrs. Cole Wedderburn produces. She did not bring that forward as one of the reasons for people not applying to the National Assistance Board.