HC Deb 13 February 1963 vol 671 cc1281-3
6. Mr. Boyden

asked the Secretary of State for War how many juveniles in his Department, aged 16 to 18 years, employed in industrial grades but not apprenticed, are released for day classes; and what percentage this forms of this category of employee.

The Under-Secretary of State and Financial Secretary for War (Mr. James Ramsden)

194 and 24 per cent. respectively.

Mr. Boyden

In view of the fact that in most Departments the percentage of juveniles on day release is well over 80 per cent.—in some cases it is 100 per cent.—why is the figure so low in the War Department?

Mr. Ramsden

I have made inquiries about conditions outside the Department. My information does not correspond with that given by the hon. Member, on the basis that apprentices are excluded as are those under the age of 16.

Mr. Boyden

But this percentage is lower than the national average.

7. Mr. Boyden

asked the Secretary of State for War what steps his Department takes to encourage juveniles, aged 16 to 18 years, employed in industrial grades but not apprenticed to attend day release classes.

Mr. Ramsden

It is the duty of all who are responsible for new juvenile entrants to ensure that they receive the pamphlet explaining the scheme for day release training, and to give them every encouragement to take advantage of these facilities.

Mr. Boyden

The hon. Member knows that under the Estacode regulations it may be made a condition of service that juveniles attend day-release classes. Why does his Department not make it a condition of service that day release is compulsory?

Mr. Ramsden

We did not think it was realistic to make it compulsory. Some of these people may work in places where these courses are not available, or they themselves may not have strong inclinations to attend these courses. We take seriously the business of encouraging them to avail themselves of these courses, where appropriate.

Mr. Boyden

What confidence can this House have in the encouraging powers of the hon. Member in dealing with generals and business contractors if he cannot encourage juveniles to attend classes in greater proportion than one in four?

Mr. Morris

Will the War Department lay down similar regulations to those of other Departments, like the Home Office and the Prison Commission, in this respect?

Mr. Ramsden

I believe that we are in line with the Service Departments. My information is that in comparison with the situation outside we do rather better. In outside industry, including apprentices, the proportion is between 25 per cent. and 33 per cent. Our figures exclude apprentices, so we do not do too badly.