HC Deb 06 February 1963 vol 671 cc421-5
5. Mr. Wingfield Digby

asked the Civil Lord of the Admiralty whether it is the policy of the Government to spread the work on the Polaris-type submarines as widely as possible, so as to give experience in the construction of these larger submarines at least to the three shipyards which are used to building conventional submarines.

Mr. C. Ian Orr-Ewing

I have nothing to add to the reply which I gave to the hon. Member for Tynemouth (Dame Irene Ward) last Wednesday.

Mr. Digby

Will my hon. Friend bear in mind the desirability of spreading both the necessary "know-how" and the machine tools, particularly in view of the fact that these yards are on the North-West Coast and in the Greenock area? Is there any hope of future orders for conventional submarines coming to these yards?

Mr. Orr-Ewing

The answer to the second part of my hon. Friend's supplementary question is, probably not from the Royal Navy, but no doubt there will be keen competitive tendering for the two "Oberon" submarines, orders for which we are placing on behalf of the Australian Government in the near future.

Sir J. Maitland

What steps are being taken to ensure that when these orders are accepted there is considerable pressure placed on the firms concerned to build these submarines as quickly as possible?

Mr. Orr-Ewing

One of the advantages of competitive tendering is that the firms well realise that if they do not get on with the job they may exceed the price and show no profit on the work that they are undertaking.

8. Mr. McMaster

asked the Civil Lord of the Admiralty whether he will spread the orders for new surface ships and for Polaris and other submarines over major shipbuilding yards where redundancy is heaviest.

Mr. C. Ian Orr-Ewing

It has been the policy for the past two-and-a-half years to place shipbuilding orders on the results of competitive tender whenever possible. In practice nearly all such orders have gone to shipbuilding firms in areas of unemployment. In the Polaris programme technical considerations and delivery dates will be of over-riding importance.

Mr. McMaster

Is my hon. Friend aware that Harland and Wolff's yard, as a result of recent modernisation with prefabrication sheds and particularly heavy cranes, is capable of building a Polaris-type submarine as rapidly and as cheaply as any yard in the country? Also, it has recent experience of working round the clock on naval orders.

Mr. Orr-Ewing

I have paid two visits to that yard and I am aware of its modernisation and the results. I would remind my hon. Friend that, although naturally one would wish that it won more orders, Ulster has had£27 million worth of Royal Navy orders in the past 10 years.

Mr. Willis

The hon. Gentleman did not reply to the latter part of the supplementary question about other submarines. Are we to assume that the Admiralty is not proceeding with any other submarines because of the Polaris programme?

Mr. Orr-Ewing

What I said was that we were unlikely to order further conventional submarines other than those which have already been announced.

Commander Courtney

If, as my hon. Friend has said, delivery dates are of overriding importance, will he seek the co-operation of hon. Members opposite in trying to persuade the trade unions concerned to work three shifts?

Mr. Orr-Ewing

I am sure that, in a national plan of this sort, we shall have the co-operation of everybody on both sides of the House to try to get this programme completed.

Mr. Rankin

Am I right in saying that the hon. Gentleman last Wednesday assured me that competitive tendering was not now the only method of ordering these new ships? Am I to take it that he is making a real attempt, as I thought he said last Wednesday, to spread the work among those areas which need it, such as Clydeside?

Mr. Orr-Ewing

This Question refers to Polaris submarines. If we can keep to that—

Mr. Rankin

Not just to Polaris.

Mr. Orr-Ewing

I am sorry. The earlier part of the Question refers to spreading the orders for new surface ships". We go out for competitive tenders, and it depends on the efficiency of the firms whether they win those tenders.

14. Mr. Willis

asked the Civil Lord of the Admiralty what increase in staff at Admiralty headquarters is expected as a result of the decision to build a fleet of Polaris submarines.

Mr. C. Ian Orr-Ewing

There will undoubtedly be a need for increase, but I cannot give any precise estimate just yet.

Mr. Willis

Once again could the hon. Gentleman say to what extent the Polaris programme will be carried out without interfering with the programme for more conventional vessels? Is he aware that we on this side of the House at least prefer to proceed with the conventional vessels rather than with Polaris?

Mr. Orr-Ewing

It is our intention to do exactly the same. We fully realise the importance of conventional operations to Her Majesty's Navy.

16. Mr. Wingfield Digby

asked the Civil Lard of the Admiralty whether it is intended to develop a new type of nuclear reactor to power the British Polaris submarines, or whether it is intended to use one similar to that being installed in the smaller and second Dreadnought class hunter-killer submarine.

Mr. C. Ian Orr-Ewing

The reactors in these submarines will be similar to that in H.M.S. "Valiant."

Mr. Digby

Will the Admiralty try to impress upon the Atomic Energy Authority the importance of pressing on with nuclear reactors and of paying rather more attention to them and rather less to the development of very costly power stations?

Mr. Orr-Ewing

I will certainly draw that point to the attention of the Authority.

19. Mr. Emrys Hughes

asked the Civil Lord of the Admiralty to what extent it will be necessary to build other naval vessels to co-operate with Polaris submarines; and what kind of new ships and naval aircraft will be necessary for this purpose.

Mr. C. Ian On-Ewing

According to our present information and plans, none, Sir.

Mr. Hughes

Has the Civil Lord not noticed these extra claims, since not only will there be the cost of the Polaris submarines but there will be needed other vessels—escort vessels and other vessels to protect the Polaris submarines? Does he not think there will be added to the present total cost a considerable cost of extra expenditure.

Mr. Orr-Ewing

I am not concerned with the operational problems of other nations. I am concerned with the operational problems of this nation. We are not at present planning to build support ships for these submarines.

Mr. McMaster

Is any research taking place into the question of the Hawker 1154 multi-jet and vertical take-off aircraft for use by the Navy?

Mr. Orr-Ewing

That would really be a question for the Ministry of Aviation, because it acts as our agent in this matter.