§ 26. Mr. Boydenasked the Civil Lord of the Admiralty how many more juveniles in his Department are now attending day-release classes as a result of his advice to heath of Departments last November to encourage young people to attend these classes.
§ Mr. C. Ian Orr-EwingIt is too early to appreciate the effect of the circular which was issued.
§ Mr. BoydenThat is very discouraging. Is the Civil Lord aware that the situation with regard to the number of 16 to 18-year-olds of the industrial non-apprentice grade in the Admiralty attending day-release classes was the worst in the Civil Service and probably below the figures for the engineering industry as a whole? Surely this is a bit of a scandal and the Civil Lord ought to take very strong steps to see that his Department's figures are brought up to the general level of the Civil Service.
§ Mr. Orr-EwingWe put out an Admiralty Fleet Order on 4th January, and it is early for us to mark the increase since then. The Order says:
Their Lordships wish every encouragement to be given to these yowls people to take advantage of the available facilities.I endorse that.
§ Mr. BoydenBut the hon. Gentleman said on 9th November that he was going to take this action. Surely it does not take from 9th November to January to issue an Order of that description?
§ Mr. Orr-EwingIt is a detailed point. We were trying to resolve a difficulty. We wanted to be able to pay for the books that these young men would use in the extension course. We have now agreed this with the Treasury. It was worth while waiting because these young men will get extra help as a result.
§ 27. Mr. Boydenasked the Civil Lord of the Admiralty if he will make it a condition of service for all juveniles aged 15 to 18 years that they will attend day-release classes.
§ Mr. C. Ian Orr-EwingWe are changing our regulations to make it a condition of service that non-industrials under 16 should attend day-release classes where these are available. As regards non-industrials 16–18 there are many difficulties, and we can do no more than give every encouragement to these juveniles to attend suitable classes.
On the industrial side, apprentices have to attend day training college for the first two years of their apprenticeship. For other juvenile industrials, who are chiefly boy labourers, it is a matter of doubt to what extent compulsory further education for all would be of benefit; encouragement is given for them to attend voluntarily.
§ Mr. BoydenThis is worse and worse. It is the typical Admiralty snobbish attitude. It means that the under-l6-yearolds of the Admiralty are worse off than those in other Departments. The hon. Gentleman should take steps to bring them up to the position of the others. Why is it that the Home Office and the Prison Commission make day release compulsory up to 18 and the Admiralty does not?
Mr. On-EwingWhen I referred to difficulties, I was referring to difficulties not within the Admiralty but which local authorities have in providing suitable classes. If they can be overcome, we will strongly encourage our boys to attend.