HC Deb 19 December 1963 vol 686 cc1445-51
Mr. Bottomley

(by Private Notice) asked the Secretary of State for the Colonies whether he will name the three men now charged in connection with the bomb outrage in Aden, and what steps he is taking to obtain the release of other detainees against whom no charges are being made.

The Secretary of State for Commonwealth Relations and for the Colonies (Mr. Duncan Sandys)

No charges have yet been preferred. The answer to the second part of the question is "None, Sir".

Mr. Bottomley

Since the leaders of nine trade unions, the leaders of the T.U.C. in Aden and the leaders of the People's Socialist Party are all detained, does not the right hon. Gentleman realise that this leaves a political vacuum and encourages terrorism? Will he not consider releasing these leaders and give consideration to the sending out of a judicial committee to investigate the matter; or is he content to leave the position as it was stated by the Minister of State in another place, that this is a matter for the security forces?

Mr. Sandys

This action was taken by the Federal Government under a declaration of a state of emergency. The Federal Government are responsible for internal security. The British High Commissioner has power to override any decision of the Federal Government, but he did not consider that he was justified in intervening in this matter, and I fully support him in the view which he took.

As regards any reference to any judicial authority, provision is made in the state of emergency decree that detainees may have their cases reviewed if they so desire by a special tribunal.

Mr. Kershaw

In coming to a decision on this very difficult matter will my right hon. Friend remember that in Aden there are many thousands of Service men's wives and children who, if a difficult situation should arise, might be in great danger?

Mr. Sandys

Of course, I am well aware of that.

Mr. Oram

Is there not sufficient in the record of the Federal Government about civil liberties to make people who are interested in this problem very apprehensive of the treatment that the prisoners may now be receiving? Will the right hon. Gentleman do everything in his power to see that proper treatment is being given to them?

Mr. Sandys

I have no reason to suppose that proper treatment is not being given to them.

Mr. Grimond

Can the Secretary of State assure us that the detainees are aware of their right to appeal? Can he say whether it is true that their relatives are not being allowed to visit them, and, if so, is this restriction necessary?

Mr. Sandys

I am not responsible directly for the arrangements for the detention of these people, but a British medical officer visited the place of detention and I have with me a full report. He visited the place on three different days and held a clinic. [Interruption.] I mention this because I have seen reports in the newspapers of torture and accusations of that kind. I would like to take this opportunity to make the position clear to the House. I have the report from the British medical officer with me. He examined all the detainees and, apart from minor ailments of a normal character, found no signs of ill-treatment of any kind whatever.

I am not in a position to make a statement about visits by persons from outside to the detainees. But I can say that if they wish to have legal advice from outside they are perfectly at liberty to see solicitors in their place of detention.

Mr. W. Yates

Will my right hon. Friend tell the House how long this emergency is to last? Are these 400 people to stay permanently in prison without trial? How many of them have been released in the last fortnight?

Mr. Sandys

It has been going on for only a few days. How long it will go on, I cannot say.

Mr. Grimond

May I again ask the right hon. Gentleman whether he will make inquiries to discover whether or not it is true that relatives are not being allowed to see the detainees? Will he inform the House of the reason for this, if it turns out to be true?

Mr. Sandys

I will inquire.

Mr. Brockway

How does the right hon. Gentleman explain that if no charges have been made in this case of bomb outrage, trade union and political leaders and 51 persons have been placed in detention, and a Cabinet Minister has resigned? How is it that this grave crisis in Aden has arisen from an outrage about which even no charges have yet been made?

Mr. Sandys

It seems to be clear that the hand grenade was thrown from a window in an office in the airport building. Three people are known to have been in that office and are being detained as suspects separately from the others. I have no doubt that some charges will be made; inquiries are at present being made.

I would like to impress upon hon. Members the fact that this is not just a matter of one grenade being thrown at the airport. A regular, concerted effort has been made recently to try to provoke trouble and bloodshed in Aden. I would like to tell hon. Members what has been going on. It is mainly being directed from Sana, over the Yemeni Radio. On 25th November, before this incident, Sana Radio urged workers in Aden to carry and use arms. The broadcast said that the aim should be to exterminate their enemies as quickly as possible. "The rights of the workers", it said, "should be taken by force". It called upon the workers in Aden …to go ahead, strike, destroy, carry arms and obtain their rights by force". On 10th December, the day of the bomb incident, this is what Sana Radio said: This is not the last bomb. Our brothers in the South are prepared to throw other bombs, and will do so in Britain itself if possible. On 13th December Sana Radio issued a statement by the Aden T.U.C. and the P.S.P. Party—the party to which reference has been made. It called on all Arabs to support the struggle of the T.U.C. and the P.S.P. and demanded "death for colonialist traitors and stooges".

Mr. W. Yates

Really!

Mr. Sandys

I have been quoting. It is all very well to say "Really", but this is a serious situation.

Mr. W. Yates

What about the United Nations resolution?

Mr. Sandys

That is all very well but I know perfectly well that the hon. Member would like to see the British driven out of Aden. [Hon. Members: "Oh."] He would be happy to see Aden swallowed up by the Yemen and ruled from Cairo.

Mr. W. Yates

On a point of order. The Minister has just made an accusation that I would be prepared to support another country known as the Yemen to the detriment of British interests. Is a Minister allowed to say that without any foundation whatever?

Mr. Speaker

I do not think that it is strictly out of order, but I deplore the use of strong language of that kind in any part of the House.

Several Hon. Members

rose—

Mr. W. Yates

The Minister should withdraw that remark.

Mr. G. M. Thomson

Does not the information which the Minister has just read to the House add a great deal of force to the request made by my right hon. Friend the Member for Middlesbrough, East (Mr. Bottomley) that a judicial commission should be set up, under a judge from the United Kingdom, to investigate exactly what the position is in the Southern Arabian Federation? Will the Secretary of State give an assurance that if hon. Members from either side of the House are able to visit Aden during the coming Recess they will have access to the detainees?

Mr. Sandys

On the question—[HON. MEMBERS: "Withdraw."] With regard to my remarks—[Hon. Members: "Apologise."] I should be very happy for any objective person to study my hon. Friend's earlier remarks and speeches on this subject. I think that it would fully bear out my impression of his attitude to this matter. [Hon. Members: "Withdraw."] As for a judicial tribunal—

Mr. W. Yates

On a point of order. It is clear, Mr. Speaker, that the Minister did not hear what you said to the House about remarks of an offensive nature which he made to me. I now ask him in courtesy, and in courtesy to the House, to withdraw them.

Mr. Sandys

I did not understand that you, Mr. Speaker, asked me to withdraw. You said that you deplored strong language.

Mr. Speaker

I told the House just what the situation is. I deplore the use of strong language of that kind on the part of anybody, because it does not assist our progress. I did not ask the Minister to withdraw, because in the context I did not think that the remark was out of order. I did not understand that when the hon. Member for The Wrekin (Mr. W. Yates) rose to a point of order he was going to ask a question of the Minister, which is a different matter. Can we now get back to the more regular situation, which is the Minister's answer to a question?

Mr. C. Pannell

On a point of order. It is perfectly true that you, Mr. Speaker, did not ask the Minister to withdraw. You deplored what was said. Is it in order for a Minister, using the privileged position he has at the Dispatch Box, to persist and proceed after you have deplored what he has said? Surely no other hon. Member in this House would do that. We expect the same courtesy to be given to the Chair by Ministers as we expect to give to you.

Mr. Speaker

I am glad about that, that I am to have the same respect as my fellow Members here, but the fact is this was not, in my view, out of order. It is not out of order, despite the fact that I deplore it, for the Minister to continue in order. Now can we have an answer to the question asked by the hon. Member for Dundee, East (Mr. G. M. Thomson)? We have a lot to do.

Mr. Sandys

The hon. Member—[HON. MEMBERS: "Withdraw."]—asked me two questions. One was in regard to a judicial tribunal. As I have explained, the detainees can have their cases referred to a tribunal. It would not, of course, be proper for a British tribunal to look into the conduct of affairs by the Federal Government. But I have no reason to suppose—I am not trying to shelter behind the constitutional position of the Federal Government—that in the very inflammatory state of affairs in Aden, which, as I have indicated, is largely provoked from outside, the precautionary measures taken by the Federal Government were excessive.

I should be very happy to consider the suggestion which the hon. Member has made about visits by hon. Members, but it would be a matter for the Federal Government to decide about visits to their prisoners.

Several Eton. Members

rose—

Mr. Speaker

Order. We really must get on.

Mr. Bellenger

On a point of order. I wonder, Mr. Speaker, whether you considered your Ruling in the context of what the Minister said about the efforts being made by people outside this territory to drive the British out by force? In that context is it not possible that the Minister's words against his hon. Friend could be construed in that way? If that is so, is that not against our rules of order?

Mr. Speaker

I did not construe them in that fashion. Of course, I shall be able to lock at what the words were when I read Hansard, but, to indicate to the House the principle upon which I was going, I thought that what was being said was that the hon. Member for The Wrekin (Mr. W. Yates) represents a point of view which, in these circumstances, would have the result which the Minister was indicating. [Hon. Members: "No."] We can all look at the words which were used about that. It will then be apparent whether the view I took was right or wrong. What I think we should do now is to proceed, because there is so much to do.

Mr. Wigg

On a point of order. Would you be good enough to reconsider what you have just said in the light of your decision last week, when you ruled that if you read some remarks in Hansard it would be too late to do anything about it? If the words I heard just now mean anything, as I think they do, the Minister was charging the hon. Member for The Wrekin (Mr. W. Yates) with treason.

Mr. Speaker

I have indicated my view. The House can deal with me if it is wrong.

Mr. W. Yates

On a point of order. I should never think that the Minister would accuse me of treason. He was asking me about my point of view. But I give notice to you, Mr. Speaker, that at a suitable time I shall seek to move the Adjournment of the House under Standing Order No. 9. I am quite satisfied with what the Minister said.

Mr. Speaker

I am obliged to the hon. Member. I will give him an opportunity when we get there.