HC Deb 18 December 1963 vol 686 cc1254-6
Mr. Speaker

The hon. and learned Member for Northampton (Mr. Paget) has a point of order which I understand he wishes to raise with me.

Mr. Paget

On a point of order, Mr. Speaker. On Monday, when I was critical of the Attorney-General, I notified the House that I would put the transcript in the Library so that right hon. and HON. MEMBERS would have the opportunity of reading his defence and his evidence in full. I should myself have thought it most unfair to say what I did say about him unless I had been in a position to make the whole of his defence available to right hon. and Hon. Members.

I duly placed the transcript in the Library and I believe that some HON. MEMBERS have had the opportunity of reading it. But, just before Question Time today, I was informed that it had been removed by your order, Sir. In my submission, in circumstances such as this, the Library ought to be able to be a depository where Hon. Members can read documents which may be, and undoubtedly are in the circumstances, of interest to them, and it is extremely unfair on the Attorney-General that his defence should no longer be available for Hon. Members to read.

Mr. Speaker

I am not seeking to reprove the hon. and learned Member for Northampton (Mr. Paget)—and I know that he will not think that I am doing so—when I say that I regret that, before making the speech in which he announced that he proposed to deposit some documents in the Library, he did not consult me. His failure to do so gave us no opportunity to warn him that to do so would involve a direct departure from our practice and rules in the matter and, therefore, in directing, as I did, that when he put the documents in the Library they must be sent back to him—I do not know whether they have reached him yet, but they are on the way—I was following strictly the practice and precedents set by my predecessors.

If the House wants to alter this practice, that is a different matter. My only reason for having the document returned to the hon. and learned Member was the practice of the House, and I believe that there is very good reason for maintaining that practice.

Mr. Paget

I do not know whether you can give me any advice, Mr. Speaker. I should have thought that, in all the circumstances, it was highly desirable that Hon. Members who wanted to see the Attorney-General's defence should have the opportunity of doing so. If I cannot put it in the Library, is there any other convenient place in the House?

Mr. Speaker

I cannot undertake a geographical survey of the House, but if the hon. and learned Gentleman will give me time I will consider what method might be adopted in the circumstances. I am, frankly, not anxious, without the direction of the House, to break the practice of the House, which I believe to be useful.

Mr. Gordon Walker

Would it be proper for the Attorney-General himself to place this transcript, or arrange for it to be placed, in the Library, Sir?

Mr. Speaker

I would like time to consider that. This is not Government business. I do not think that any Ministerial responsibility attaches to the proceedings in question. I believe that we are dealing, in fact, with an unofficial document. That is my present opinion, but I would like time for further consideration.

Mr. Gordon Walker

Transcripts of trials have been placed from time to time in the Library, although I do not know by what means.

Mr. Speaker

That is a slightly different case. There would be certain Ministerial responsibility in some sense, vesting in the Lord Chancellor. The case of these documents is rather different.

Mr. Paget

Since the Attorney-General is a Minister of the Crown, perhaps he would like to lay documents, Sir.

Mr. Speaker

I think that that is rather like the suggestion by the right hon. Member for Smethwick (Mr. Gordon Walker).

Mr. Doughty

Is it not most unusual and improper to try to obtain publicity for a private inquiry by a professional body dealing with a professional man by putting such a document in a place where it can be read?

Mr. Speaker

That cannot be a matter for me. I am concerned only with the practice of the House.