HC Deb 17 December 1963 vol 686 cc1043-5
Q5. Mr. W. Hamilton

asked the Prime Minister, if he will seek an early opportunity to meet members of the Scottish Trades Union Congress to discuss problems of the Scottish economy.

The Prime Minister

There is no lack of Ministerial contact with the Scottish Trades Union Congress. My right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Scotland holds regular meetings with its Economic Committee. The last was on 15th November; and he is due to meet them again on 20th December, specifically to discuss the Government's recent White Paper on Central Scotland. My right hon. Friend the Minister of Labour also saw members of the Scottish Trades Union Congress on 7th November.

In the past there have been occasions when my predecessor had useful discussions with the Scottish Trades Union Congress. I am sure that opportunities for similar discussions will occur in the future.

Mr. Hamilton

Does the right hon. Gentleman recognise that there is increasing recognition in Scotland that he himself is not too well aware of the economic problems of his own country? Is he aware that his predecessor as Prime Minister did see the Scottish T.U.C., and in view of the urgency of the situation and the fact that many trade union members in Scotland are not confident as to the efficacy of the proposals that the right hon. Gentleman has made vis-à-vis the Scottish economy, will he take the initiative himself to meet members of the T.U.C. to discuss these matters?

The Prime Minister

I think it a little arrogant of the hon. Gentleman to suggest that I do not know about the Scottish economy. I have lived in Scotland all my life and have had a lot of experience of both the agricultural and industrial parts of the country. If the Scottish T.U.C. wishes to see me, as I have indicated in the last part of my Answer, I shall be happy to see it.

Mr. Hamilton

If the right hon. Gentleman understands the Scottish economy, how does he explain the fact that he did not know that the Hydro-Electric Board had been stopped from any further advance for three years? He made this quite clear during his own by-election campaign.

The Prime Minister

That is an entirely separate questions. The Hydro-Electric Board was not stopped by Government action, as the hon. Gentleman perfectly well knows; it was halted for the time being because certain objections had been made which had to be heard.

Mr. K. Lewis

Will my right hon. Friend or those of his colleagues who from time to time meet the Trades Union Congresses of both Scotland and England make clear to them that there is great advantage to be gained from the Congress in either country pressing upon the workpeople the need at the present time, in the interests of the economy of Scotland and of the nation as a whole, that we should keep to a certain amount of wage restraint and that there should be some regard paid to the guiding light of the N.E.D.C. by people engaged in industry on both sides?

The Prime Minister

What matters most to the wage earner and the salary earner in this country, I think, is that wage increases should be met by productivity.

Mr. H. Wilson

Yes, but when the Prime Minister says that, does he recognise that the only possible basis on which we can get a fair incomes policy, not just a wage policy, is by having an adequate climate of social justice and Government measures to see that it is carried through?

The Prime Minister

I think that I will accept that. It is the objective of the Government.