HC Deb 01 August 1963 vol 682 cc627-8
17. Mr. Lawson

asked the Chancellor of the Exchequer when he expects to receive the Flemming Report on the dispersal of Government office personnel from central London.

16. Mr. Ross

asked the Chancellor of the Exchequer whether he has yet received the Flemming Report concerning Government office building and dispersal of personnel from London; and whether he will make a statement.

Mr. Boyd-Carpenter

I would refer the hon. Members to the Answer I gave to my hon. Friend the Member for Holborn and St. Pancras, South (Mr. G. Johnson Smith) on 18th July.

Mr. Lawson

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that I read that Answer with considerable interest and noticed that apart from the proposed shift of the Post Office Savings Bank to Durham, which was decided many years ago, any other proposals are to be within a limit of two hours' travel distance from the centre of London? Will the Chief Secretary bear in mind that this will make no difference whatsoever to a country like Scotland, and further that it is the concentration of Government Departments in the London area—not just in the centre of London—which is one of the major factors in bringing about the concentration of industry in the London area?

Mr. Boyd-Carpenter

For once the hon. Gentleman is not quite right. In addition to the Post Office move, it is contemplated that up to 1,000 officers from other Departments should also be moved a greater distance from London than that to which the hon. Gentleman has referred. He is quite right in pointing out that the practicalities of the situation dictate in a good many cases a limit to the distance which it makes practical sense to move; but I hope he will feel from our action in setting up the whole of this operation that we have a great deal of sympathy with his point of view and that we want to see as good a move from central London as possible without causing a real sacrifice of efficiency or hardship to individuals.

Mr. Jay

Is it not essential that the Government should do something more vigorous here and not just on the outskirts of London? If the Government do not set an example, private industry can hardly be expected to follow it.

Mr. Boyd-Carpenter

If the right hon. Gentleman will study the answer that I gave, he will see that the Government have not only set a good example in recent years but are persisting in setting it. He will have noticed that in my statement to which I referred I indicated the further action being taken in connection with the nationalised industries.

Mr. Ross

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that there was in that statement to which he has referred a reference to further study, particularly in relation to the fluidity of defence arrangements? Can he tell us when the House will have fuller information about the results of that study? May we have an assurance that he has not closed his mind to a much more complete removal of officers under Government control outside London?

Mr. Boyd-Carpenter

I have not closed my mind to further moves, but I think the House will agree that to attempt to superimpose extra moves on the Defence Departments, at the time of the defence reorganisation which the House was discussing yesterday, would not be very sensible.

Mr. Ridley

Does not my right hon. Friend agree that if the party opposite had their way and created a further six Ministries there would be a considerable increase in the number of offices?

Mr. Boyd-Carpenter

It would certainly undo some of the good work.