HC Deb 01 August 1963 vol 682 cc647-53
Q12. Dame Irene Ward

asked the Prime Minister whether he will now announce Her Majesty's Government's proposals for the North-East.

Q13. Mr. Stodart

asked the Prime Minister whether he will make a statement about the Government's proposals for central Scotland.

The Prime Minister

The Government have now received comprehensive and detailed reports on central Scotland and north-east England prepared under the direction of my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Scotland and my noble Friend the Lord President. These reports contain proposals for regional development which involve a major new departure from the policies which have hitherto been followed by Governments of all parties.

The Government intend to lay before the House by the end of October White Papers which will put forward proposals for the planned development of these regions. These proposals will represent a further stage in our policies of stimulating economic growth and will deal not only with industrial development but also with a wide range of public service investment. The White Papers will include the Government's views on suggestions that have been made for the fostering of growth places.

This new development of policy will need to be considered against the background of the far-reaching measures, unprecedented in scope and importance, which have already been taken by the Government to give immediate support and lasting benefit to areas of special economic difficulties. I will with permission circulate a list of the more important of these measures in the OFFICIAL REPORT. But I wish particularly to mention "free depreciation" introduced by my right hon. Friend the Chancellor of the Exchequer, the new and greatly improved grants now available under the Local Employment Acts and the listing of the whole of Tyneside and Tees-side as development districts.

My right hon. Friend the President of the Board of Trade is today announcing further additions to the list of development districts in central Scotland and the north-east of England. These additions will make it possible, by rounding up the areas concerned, for the Government to pursue a policy of fostering growth places.

My right hon. Friend is also going ahead with the preliminary planning of a new industrial estate in the Tees-side area.

Dame Irene Ward

While thanking my right hon. Friend for that very important statement, may I ask him to accept the thanks of those from the North-East who consider that the appointment of Lord Hailsham under his direction has been of great benefit in developing this new outlook for the areas in economic difficulty? May I ask my right hon. Friend whether there is likely to be any difficulty about finance or anything of that kind? Will it really be a comprehensive plan? Will my right hon. Friend also accept our thanks for the speed with which this action has been taken, which should serve as an example to all other Government Departments?

The Prime Minister

I am grateful for what my hon. Friend has said. I know how hard she has worked for and how deeply she feels the problem of the north-east area. The same is true of the Scottish central area. I think that these long-term proposals which we shall be able to work out and the new arrangements for scheduling special places give us the possibility of advancing upon a new and very hopeful line of policy.

Mr. Stodart

Is my right hon. Friend aware of the great benefits that would accrue to the central Scotland area and far beyond it if the tremendous potential growth point around Grangemouth and thereabouts became eligible for the concessions given in the recent budget?

The Prime Minister

My right hon. Friend the President of the Board of Trade is making a reply later, but as it is a Written Answer I do not think that it would be wrong for me to deal with one or two points. The new places include a number of districts, but they include Grangemouth and Falkirk, in Central Scotland, and Durham, Birtley and Washington Station, in north-east England. That meets the point of improving the growth possibilities and not merely concentrating upon particular areas where there is a high rate of unemployment.

Mr. Grimond

As the development of a regional structure is necessary in other areas besides central Scotland and the north-east of England, and as it would be extremely difficult to judge the Government's proposals if they were confined to these areas—because, surely, they must take into account possible parallel development in other regions of Scotland and England—may we take it that the White Papers will deal with regional development generally and the creation of growth points in other areas as well as these two?

The Prime Minister

The White Paper will deal with these two special cases, which are the two most important at the moment. Then, of course, other policies may develop from them. It is a good plan—it certainly has proved to be one in most of the things one tries to do—to start at definite points and see what progress can be made.

Sir J. Duncan

While congratulating my right hon. Friend on this imaginative approach to the problem, may I ask at the same time that he will do nothing to hurt existing industry, such as the jute industry in Dundee?

The Prime Minister

My hon. Friend need not have any anxiety.

Mr. Shinwell

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that our interest in the plan for regional development would be enormously increased if he or somebody on behalf of the Government would inform the House how many new jobs will be provided in the course of the next few years as a result of this proposed development? Is he aware that in spite of all the Questions which hon. Members, on both sides, have asked of his right hon. Friend the President of the Board of Trade and others representing the Government in connection with these important problems of unemployment, we have never been able to ascertain how many jobs will be provided and that this is the essential prerequisite of a successful regional development plan?

The Prime Minister

I should have said that it was the essential result of successful policies.

Mr. Speir

In warmly welcoming the personal interest which my right hon. Friend the Prime Minister has taken during the past year in the problems of the North-East, may I, nevertheless, ask him, when drawing up the White Paper proposals, to give careful consideration to the working of the Local Employment Act, which many people in the North-East think is being interpreted far too unimaginatively and in too narrow a fashion? May I particularly ask whether the whole of the North-East should not be scheduled? Is it not altogether unreasonable to refuse applications for assistance from any firm which can provide employment in the North-East?

The Prime Minister

I think that what we have done recently under the present legislation is the most that we can do, which is to add these places as we have done—Tyneside and Tees-side—and now these additional places in Durham. If the new survey and the White Papers make further legislation necessary, then, of course, new points can be dealt with.

Mr. Ross

Is the Prime Minister aware that what he has announced today only administratively meets the shortcomings of the Local Employment Act that were pointed out when that Measure was going through the House? Secondly, is he aware that there already exist in Scotland—in Lanarkshire, for instance—great areas which are capable of development and which could have been developed and which, although they have been listed, have not had adequate help?

Will the Prime Minister answer one specific question: is there any definite promise of any job going in central Scotland as a result of the changes that he will unveil in the month of October, when we are a little nearer an election?

The Prime Minister

A great number of schemes have been brought to Scotland in the last years and are being brought under the Budget and under many other schemes, both in central Scotland, the great pulp mill in the north of Scotland, and these new proposals—[Interruption.] Everybody knows this and the rate of unemployment and the fall in unemployment shows it.

Mr. Montgomery

Is my right hon. Friend aware that this announcement will be very pleasing to those people who believe in the future of the north-east of England, but is he aware that 75,000 extra jobs are required there over the next four or five years? Does he believe that the measures contained in the White Paper will help to remedy this problem? Will he say whether we are to have a road link between the Midlands and the North-East, and can he give an assurance that this matter will be debated very soon after we reassemble after the Recess?

The Prime Minister

The most I can say is that there will be a debate if it is arranged in the ordinary way. I hope that both the things which we have done over past years, including the radical change in our whole structure of taxation and other similar measures, will bring their results and that these new proposals will be fully fruitful.

Mr. H. Wilson

Since the right hon. Gentleman has just referred to things which have been done in past years, may I ask him if he is aware that the number of people at work in Scotland now, 1963, is slightly less than the number in 1951, 12 years ago? Is the Prime Minister now expecting to improve on the record of the last twelve years, and if so, by how much?

The Prime Minister

The right hon. Gentleman knows perfectly well that these over-simplifications he makes are absolutely invalid. He might as well say that there have been movements of population in the present as there have been in the past. There have been enormous developments in certain areas in England and less development in others. What we are trying to do is to redirect to some extent these natural movements and see if we can get a better balance in the different parts of the country.

Mr. Wilson

Does it not occur to the Prime Minister that one of the main reasons for the movement of population over the past 12 years is the entire failure of the Government to provide work for the people who are there? Does he really consider it an invalid test of the Government's success in the location of industry policy to compare jobs in Scotland now with those of 12 years ago?

The Prime Minister

Yes, I think it takes no account of all kinds of natural forces which are at work, and which have largely been counteracted.

Mr. Bourne-Arton

Will my right hon. Friend agree that the success of these measures in future will depend to some extent, as they have in the past depended, upon the determination and enterprise and sense of resolute purpose of local authorities? Is he aware that since April the County Borough of Darlington, with most splendid help from my right hon. Friends at the Board of Trade and the Ministry of Labour and their officers, has created over 400 new jobs and that many, many more are imminent, and that there are at any rate, whatever hon. Gentlemen opposite may say, 3,000 families in Darlington who are facing the threat of unemployment who will welcome this statement today?

Mr. Short

Is the Prime Minister aware that we would welcome a carefully worked out long-term plan to change the economy of the North-East, but is he also aware the steps which the Government have taken so far and the Government's whole thinking on this problem are not effective to match the size of the problem yet? As this plan is not to be announced before October, could he tell us what specific steps the Government are going to take to induce more employment to the area before the winter? Finally, is the Prime Minister aware that virtually the only thing the Government changed when they brought in the Local Employment Act was to schedule local employment exchange areas instead of regions, and they have gone back to the scheduling of regions? Will he tell us why they wasted the whole of these three years in this futile way?

The Prime Minister

I think that is a slightly ungenerous way of dealing with it. Taking last year, over 28 advance factories have been set up in Scotland and the north-east of England——

Mr. Ross

But how many jobs?

The Prime Minister

—programmes for extra short-term construction work have been placed, at very large figures of public expenditure, and the Budget decisions were generally welcomed, I thought, by the House, certainly by the local authorities in the area, and by industrialists, and they will have great effect.

Several Hon. Members rose

—

Mr. Speaker

We cannot debate this now.

Following is the list: Measures already taken by the Government in recent months to assist these regions include the new and greatly improved grants which are now available under the Local Employment Acts. The increase in investment allowances has been supplemented by the introduction of "free depreciation" in all development districts. Government grants for the clearance of derelict sites in these districts have been increased. On training, a significant contribution has been promised for the new industrial training boards, and the retraining facilities in Government training centres are being doubled—over a half of the increase going to Scotland and the North-East. The very large credit which has been made available to help shipbuilding will be of particular benefit to these regions, as will the offers of extra overseas aid which have been linked to surplus production capacity. No fewer than 28 advance factories for Scotland and North-East England have been announced in little more than a year. Programmes of extra short-term construction work are being undertaken in these regions, and public investment expenditure is being increased. The whole of Tyneside and Tees-side have been included in the list of development districts. We have given massive help to the Fort William Pulp Mill project and are assisting completion of the new docks on Tees-side.