HC Deb 19 November 1962 vol 667 cc810-5
29. Mr. Pearl

asked the Minister of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food if he is satisfied that entry into the European Economic Community will not prejudice producer marketing boards.

Mr. Soames

There is, in general, no incompatibility between the functions of the agricultural marketing boards and the objects and methods of the common agricultural policy. Though some adaptation of their powers and duties might prove necessary, a wide range of functions would continue to be open to them. The Government therefore believe that the boards would have a valuable rôle to play in an enlarged Community of which this country was a member.

Mr. Peart

Is the Minister not aware that there has been uncertainty in view of a previous speech? Will he convey to Europe in particular that producer boards—the Milk Marketing Board, for example—are an essential lynch-pin of security for many of our small farmers?

Mr. Soames

We regard them as being of great importance and as being able to contribute considerably to the general economy of our agriculture.

Mr. P. Browne

Can my right hon. Friend confirm that, in principle, there should be no reason why future marketing boards should not be set up once we have joined the Common Market?

Mr. Soames

From the point of view of the Common Market, whether it is a producer marketing board for one commodity or another is not a primary factor. It would depend on the reason we had from a national point of view under the Agricultural Marketing Act, 1958.

Mr. Morris

Can the Minister give an indication of what adaptation of the powers of the Milk Marketing Board will be necessary?

Mr. Soames

The milk regulations have not yet been published by the Community and so it is not possible to say. I have in mind that the Government would be responsible for seeing that the common agricultural policy was carried out and to that extent they might have to take extra powers over the producer marketing boards to ensure that they were fulfilling the common agricultural policy.

Sir J. Maitland

Is my right hon. Friend aware that last year in public in Paris Dr. Mansholt expressed an opinion that producer marketing boards were an exceedingly advantageous form of agricultural administration and that he was in favour of them?

Mr. Soames

I cannot remember the exact words used by Dr. Mansholt. I know that the Community had this much in mind as being a valuable part of the common agricultural policy. There are large-scale producer co-operatives on the Continent which are not dissimilar in their objective.

31 and 32. Mrs. Castle

asked the Minister of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food (1) what estimates he has now made of the increases in the retail price of butter, cheese, eggs and milk which would be necessary consequent upon the adoption by this country of the common agricultural policy of the European Economic Community;

(2) what estimate he has now made of the increase in the cost of food per head per week which would be consequent upon the adoption by this country of the common agricultural policy of the European Economic Community.

33. Mr. Stonehouse

asked the Minister of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food what estimate he has now made of the increased cost of food for the average family in the event of Great Britain joining the Common Market and accepting the agricultural policy of the Six.

12. Sir C. Osborne

asked the Minister of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food what estimate he has now made of the increased cost of food per week for a family of five people in the event of Britain joining the Common Market and all British farm subsidies under the joint agricultural policy being abolished; and if he will make a statement.

Mr. Soames

I cannot estimate the extent of the rise in food prices in general or the particular items, because it is not known what the prices for different commodities are going to be in the Common Market period; the pace of any rise would depend on the length of the transitional period. But we have reasonable grounds to expect that, if we joined, the average increase, taking one commodity with another, would be small and gradual.

Mrs. Castle

Is the Minister aware that Mr. Weingarten, chief economist of the National Farmers' Union, has made a categorical statement about increases in the prices of certain commodities which would result were we to join the Common Market? Is the Minister aware that he said that butter would go up to 6s. a lb., that eggs would go up from 3s. 3d. to 4s. 5d. a dozen, that the price of cheese would be up by 50 per cent. and that he gave a whole lot of other figures? Is the Minister also aware that Mr. Strauss, in his recent book on the Common Market, has based estimates on the I.L.O. food index which tend to show that the average increase in price per head per week for food in this country if we join the agricultural policy of the Common Market would be an increase from 4s. 6d. per head per week to 5s. 3d. per head per week, and can the Minister—[HON. MEMBERS: "Oh."]—I have two Questions, Mr. Speaker——

Mr. Speaker

The trouble about the hon. Lady's supplementary question so far is that it has consisted of giving information. May we have the question?

Mrs. Castle

I was giving the information because the Minister seemed to be so devoid of it. As everyone else in the country seems to have this information, does not the right hon. Gentleman think that he owes it to the consumers to put some estimate before them now, so that they may know what kind of increase in food prices to expect?

Mr. Soames

It is not the duty of the Minister to hazard wild guesses in this regard for the benefit of the House of Commons or Parliament——

Mr. Stonehouse

He should make accurate estimates.

Mr. Soames

To make an accurate estimate is quite impossible, because we do not know what are to be the harmonisation prices of different commodities. Neither do we know what the length of time is to be while we are changing over from one system to another. Broadly speaking, the increases referred to by the N.F.U. economist and the hon. Lady are increases at the farm gate, which is quite different from any increase which is likely to take place in retail prices. A large element in the retail cost is the cost of manufacture, the cost of distribution and the like. I hope that the hon. Lady will not fall into the same trap as did other hon. Members opposite at the time when the food subsidies were removed some years ago. At that time all sorts of scare stories were current about the price to which certain commodities would rise, but these fears were nowhere near realised.

Mr. Stonehouse

Is the less than frank answer by the Minister related in any way to the anxiety of the right hon. Gentleman to keep a "poker face" before the South Dorset by-election, bearing in mind the very great interest which consumers now have in the likelihood that prices will rise? In view of the Minister's answer to Question No. 16, that deficiency payments account for 16 per cent. of the price that the farmers receive, is not the estimate produced by agricultural economists, that food costs to the average family will go up from£5 4s. to something like£6 a week—an average rise of over 15s. a week for each family—likely to be the case? Is not it about time that the Minister was frank about this matter?

Mr. Soames

The hon. Gentleman can make any estimate he chooses. From the point of view of the Government, there are various essential factors which they do not know. I can only stress them again. We do not know what will be the harmonisation prices in the transitional period, neither do we know how long that period will be. So we cannot tell the extent to which there will be a rise in food prices. We have always acknowledged that a feature of a common agricultural policy would be an increase in food prices to the consumer. But we cannot make an estimate of what might be the increase because there are so many matters about which we cannot be certain.

Sir S. McAdden

Is my right hon. Friend aware that I share, in a diminished measure, the apprehension of the hon. Lady the Member for Blackburn (Mrs. Castle)? But is not it a fact that the estimates which the hon. Lady has given of the possible increase in prices fall very far short of the estimates given at the time when the food subsidies were removed, when it was said that the price of eggs would rise to 1s. each and that butter would be 10s. a 1b.?

Mr. Soames

That is quite true.

Mr. Peart

Is the Minister aware that in an interview he gave recently to the English Press Dr. Mansholt stated the percentage increase? Is the Minister further aware that the cereal regulation which the right hon. Gentleman has praised could well mean higher feed prices for livestock producers, which might have another effect?

Mr. Soames

Of course, a rise in the cost of cereals would bring about some rise in the cost of the derivatives of cereals and everything manufactured from them. There has never been any denial of that.

Mr. M. Foot

Since the Minister says that there are so many unknown factors, how is it possible for him to hazard the wild guess that the increase in price will be only small?

Mr. Soames

Because that is self-evident.

Mr. Paget

Is not the right hon. Gentleman's problem that neither he nor the Government will state the price of food which is to be paid and, therefore, he is not in a position to say what it is? Under the Common Market policy, will not it be settled in the interests of Europe?

Mr. Soames

To a large extent the harmonisation prices will be arranged at each agricultural price review for particular commodities in the same way as our present system of guaranteed prices. What we cannot do now is forecast what the prices are likely to be at the end of the transitional period.