§ 10. Mr. Burdenasked the Secretary of State for the Home Department if he will take steps to forbid experiments on animals in which they are forced to inhale tobacco smoke with the intention of inducing lung cancer.
§ Mr. WoodhouseNo, Sir. My right hon. Friend is satisfied that experiments of this kind may properly be performed with a view to the advancement by new discovery of physiological knowledge, or of knowledge which will be useful for saving or prolonging life or alleviating suffering.
§ Mr. BurdenDoes my hon. Friend realise that this is really a shocking answer in view of the fact that the Americans have stated that, for a considerable time, they have been endeavouring to induce animals to contract lung cancer by forcing them to inhale tobacco smoke, but without success? Why is this experiment to continue in this country despite the American experience? Will my hon. Friend instruct the people concerned to get in touch with the Americans who have already been carrying out these experiments so that this cruelty can be stopped?
§ Mr. WoodhouseResearch workers in this country are, of course, in touch with work in the United States, but the fact that experiments undertaken so far have not produced cancer in animals does not necessarily mean that further experiments carried out under different circumstances would not be liable to do so.
§ Sir B. CraddockIs it not a fact that the Government have accepted that there is a connection between smoking and lung carcinoma? In view of this, is it really necessary to allow these very cruel experiments to be carried out?
§ Mr. WoodhouseIn the judgment of qualified medical research workers, on whose advice my right hon. Friend relies, the answer is "Yes."
§ 11. Mr. Burdenasked the Secretary of State for the Home Department how many persons licensed by him to undertake experiments on living animals are third year undergraduates at a university; and how many such experiments were carried out in the first six months of 1962.
§ Mr. WoodhouseTwo hundred and forty-five undergraduates who have passed their Second Year M.B. hold licences under the Cruelty to Animals Act, 1876. Information about the number of experiments performed this year will not be available until after the end of the year.
§ Mr. BurdenIs it not the case that these licences are issued under the condition that the animals are kept under complete anaesthesia during the whole of the experiment and are not to be allowed to recover, and that students shall perform these experiments only under supervision? Can my hon. Friend guarantee that all these provisions are carried out in every case in which these experiments are conducted?
§ Mr. WoodhouseThe information contained in the first part of my hon. Friend's supplementary question is correct. If it were known to him, or to any of his informants, that there were any cases in which the regulations were not being strictly carried out, we should be grateful if that information were conveyed to us, when it would be investigated.
§ 13. Sir Richard Pilkingtonasked the Secretary of State for the Home Department how many visits to how many premises registered for experiments involving animals were paid by his inspectors in 1961
§ Mr. Woodhouse1,407 visits were made during 1961 to 525 places registered under the Cruelty to Animals Act, 1876.
§ Sir Richard PilkingtonIs my hon. Friend aware that there is widespread concern not only about experiments in general but about methods of animal slaughter, broiler plants, battery hens and inadequate dog kennels? Has not the time come for another Royal Commission, since the last one was a very long time ago? Will he consider that?
§ Mr. WoodhouseThe question of the need for some form of inquiry in relation to the administration of the Cruelty to Animals Act was one of the matters referred by my right hon. Friend to his Advisory Committee headed by Lord Morris of Borth-y-Gest last summer. The Committee has held a number of meetings and has completed its work, and my right hon. Friend expects to hear shortly from it.
The question of an inquiry into the subjects which my hon. Friend has referred to would go somewhat outside the scope of the Cruelty to Animals Act, and any recommendation which the Advisory Committee made would be confined to the operation of that Act. Further steps would be for other Departments, such as the Ministry of Agriculture.
§ Sir G. NicholsonIs my hon. Friend aware that I am not an anti-vivisectionist or a crank but that I am profoundly shocked by the complacency of the Home Office in regard to vivisection? Is there not a case for a greater number of inspectors? I hope that my hon. Friend will pay attention to what I believe to be a strong movement of public opinion in this connection.
§ Mr. WoodhouseI am very well aware of the strong feeling in this connection, but there is some misunderstanding about the role of inspectors, which cannot be directly related to the number of so-called experiments carried 1134 out in the year but more to the number of establishments which have to be inspected.
§ Mr. SpeakerMr. McMaster
§ Mr. McMasterrose—
§ Mr. WoodhouseIn many cases, the research work and the work carried out in such laboratories is only in a technical sense experimental. Many are what are called "diagnostic experiments which are not devoted to medica research in the normal sense.
§ Mr. SpeakerOrder. Everyone is trying to be very courteous, but I am concerned that we should try to make better progress.