CENTRAL AFRICA (SECRETARY OF STATE'S VISIT) (Hansard, 31 May 1962)

§ 37. Mr. HEALEY
To ask the Secretary of State for the Home Department (Central African Office) if he will make a statement on his visit to the Central African Federation.

§ 39. Mr. RUSSELL
To ask the Secretary of State for the Home Department (Central African Office) if he will make a statement on his visit to Rhodesia and Nyasaland.

§ 40. Mr. BIGGS-DAVISON
To ask the Secretary of State for the Home Department (Central African Office) if he will 1588 make a statement about his visit to the Federation of Rhodesia and Nyasaland, and on Her Majesty's Government's plans for the future of British Central Africa.

§ The Secretary of State for the Home Department (Mr. R. A. Butler)
With permission, I will now answer Questions Nos. 37, 39 and 40 together.
Yes, Sir. In the course of my visit I had informal discussions with the Governments of the Federation and of the three territories. I also talked with representatives of political parties and other organisations, as well as with many individuals of all races. I have thus been able to obtain for myself a fuller and clearer picture of the political and economic problems in Central Africa and I should like to acknowledge the kindness with which I was received. These problems are difficult and complex, and it would be unwise on the basis of a short tour to attempt to reach final conclusions.
I am, however, happy to tell the House that we have succeeded in reaching a position from which, with the co-operation of all the Governments concerned, more detailed exploratory work can now proceed along the lines which I described to the House in the debate on 8th May.
I then said, and I now intend, that the problems of the area should be approached in a composite way so that the various separate aspects of the future relationship of the territories can be examined together.
I propose to put this work in hand as quickly as possible.

§ Mr. Healey
Is the Home Secretary aware that we welcome the improvement in the political atmosphere which seems to have followed his visit to the Federation? May I ask him two questions? As he has acknowledged that the Malawi Congress Party has received a firm mandate for its view that Nyasaland should leave the Federation, what position does he propose to take up on this issue when he meets Dr. Banda next month? Secondly, can he say whether Mr. Kenneth Kaunda is now satisfied that Her Majesty's Government and the Federal Government and the Northern Rhodesian Government have met the 1589 conditions which he set for participating in the Northern Rhodesian elections next October?

§ Mr. Butler
Yes, Sir. Her Majesty's Government have acknowledged that, backed by mandate at the election, the Malawi Congress Party is not willing to remain in the Federation. We have stated, and I restate now, that Her Majesty's Government consider that before a final conclusion is reached examination should take place of the effect of the withdrawal and possible future forms of association with the other territories.
In regard to Mr. Kenneth Kaunda's requests, I informed him personally in Lusaka and in a public speech in Salisbury that we considered that the conditions prior to his acceptance of standing in the election could virtually be said to be fulfilled, namely, an independent chairman of the Delimitation Commission and the other matters to which he referred.

§ Mr. Russell
Will my right hon. Friend do his best to ensure that at least a strong association is maintained between the two Rhodesias and possibly some economic association between them and Nyasaland, so that all the good work of the last nine years is not completely lost?

§ Mr. Butler
Yes, Sir. The exploratory work which I described to the House on 8th May will have these objectives in mind.
As I said in answer to the hon. Member for Leeds, East (Mr. Healey), I do not propose to call a Federal review conference prior, at any rate, to the Northern Rhodesian elections, but this exploratory work will be designed to see what effective action we can take on the lines of what my hon. Friend has said.

§ Mr. Biggs-Davison
Did my right hon. Friend assure the Governor of Northern Rhodesia of the full support of Her Majesty's Government in using all the forces of law and order to protect peaceable people of all races from violence, intimidation and political terror? Whatever the result of the elections in Northern Rhodesia, will Her Majesty's Government continue to discharge their constitutional authority and their responsibility for peace and order?

§ Mr. Butler
Yes, Sir. I took more than one opportunity of stressing not only with the Government of Northern Rhodesia, but with the other Governments concerned, the importance of countering intimidation. It is Her Majesty's Government's desire that the elections in Northern Rhodesia and elsewhere should be held without intimidation and in a peaceful way.
The answer to the latter part of my hon. Friend's question is, "Yes, Sir."

§ Mr. Bellenger
Was the right hon. Gentleman able to discuss with Dr. Banda the economic consequences of secession from the Federation, as Nyasaland is at present receiving substantial subsidies from the Federation to keep it going?

§ Mr. Butler
Yes, Sir. I discussed this with Dr. Banda and we considered together the fact that only a proportion of the budget of Nyasaland is covered by revenue raised in the territory itself. I must also say that at present the chief interest of the Malawi Ministers is concentrated on their constitutional future, but I was able to have very frank discussions with them about their economic future.

§ Viscount Hinchingbrooke
During my right hon. Friend's very successful tour of the Rhodesias, reports arrived in this country to the effect that Dr. Banda had made an absolute demand for secession and that my right hon. Friend had accommodated him to the extent of conceding the principle. I was not quite sure from his answers whether that was the case.

§ Mr. Butler
No, Sir. The position is as I stated it personally to Dr. Banda and in the House on 8th May and at a Press conference at Zomba, namely, that before any final conclusion is reached, the examination to which I referred must take place.

§ Mr. Healey
Can the Home Secretary assure the House that nothing he has just said detracts from the force of the declaration made by Her Majesty's Government's representatives at the United Nations, namely, that no steps would be taken concerning the future of the Federation without the agreement of 1591 the majority of the inhabitants— not the electorate— of all the territories concerned?

§ Mr. Butler
I stated in a series of speeches while I was in the Federation that we should not proceed without general consent, without which no lasting settlement could be reached.

§ Mr. Berkeley
While congratulating my right hon. Friend on the personal success of his visit, may I ask him whether, since he agrees that any possible future association between these three territories must be based upon general consent, he would not also agree that the possibility of economic association between these territories, which we all hope to see, might be facilitated by an earlier declaration of the right of each territory to secede if it so desires? Will it not be very difficult to refuse this right in view of what has happened in the Federation of the West Indies?

§ Mr. Butler
No, Sir. Her Majesty's Government, as I explained in the debate on 8th May, cannot go as far as that at the present time. We are engaged in this work, which will be extremely laborious and difficult, and I cannot take the matter as far as my hon. Friend would wish.

§ Mr. Stonehouse
Did the Home Secretary tell Sir Roy Welensky and confirm to him the statement made by the Lord Chancellor to the effect that any constitutional change in the Federation of Rhodesia and Nyasaland was completely the responsibility of the United Kingdom, and, if so, did Sir Roy Welensky accept that fact?

§ Mr. Butler
As can be imagined, protracted argument on this subject took place. I sustained the view of Her Majesty's Government and Sir Roy Welensky sustained his own view and that of the Federal Government. Up to date, we are leaving it that Her Majesty's Government accept what my noble Friend the Lord Chancellor said.