HC Deb 23 May 1962 vol 660 cc426-30
24. Mr. Ross

asked the Secretary of State for War what percentage of the estimated expenditure for 1962–63 on research, design and development, Vote 7, II, H, will be spent in Scotland.

25. Mr. J. Bennett

asked the Secretary of State for War what percentage of the estimated expenditure on ammunition, Vote 7, II, D, for 1962–63, will be spent in Scotland.

26. Mr. Bence

asked the Secretary of State for War what percentage of the estimated expenditure on general stores, Vote 7, II, B, for 1962–63, will be spent in Scotland.

27. Mrs. Cullen

asked the Secretary of State for War what percentage of the estimated expenditure on clothing, Vote 7, II, A, for 1962–63, will be spent in Scotland.

28. Mr. McInnes

asked the Secretary of State for War what percentage of the estimated expenditure for 1962–63 on engineering stores, Vote 7, II, G, will be spent in Sootland.

29. Mr. Rankin

asked the Secretary of State for War what percentage of the estimated expenditure for 1962–63 on technical stores, Vote 7, II, F, will be spent in Scotland.

30. Mr. Lawson

asked the Secretary of State for War what percentage of the estimated expenditure for 1962–63 on mechanical transport and aircraft, Vote 7, II, E, will he spent in Scotland.

Mr. Ramsden

At this time of year it is not possible to make accurate estimates, because the allocation of work will depend on the results of tendering. Scottish firms will of course get the same opportunity as others to tender for items which they are in a position to produce.

Mr. Ross

On Question No. 24, the cost of the stores involved amounts, I believe, to about £5¾ million. Will the hon. Gentleman bear in mind that that is only about a quarter of the £20 million to be provided by this House for the War Office to spend on design, research and development? Will he bear in mind the unemployment difficulties facing the Secretary of State for Scotland and help out as much as possible by ensuring not only that a proportion of the stores is bought in Scotland but that some of the experimental work and the contracts to be placed go to Scotland?

Mr. Ramsden

I must remind the hon. Gentleman that, relatively speaking, there is not much capacity in Scotland for providing the type of equipment which the Army needs. But where the capacity does exist, firms in Scotland get the same opportunity to tender as firms in other parts of the country.

Mr. J. Bennett

Will the Minister bear in mind that the Army is spending about £13½ on ammunition, which is about £1½ million more than last year, and also that Scotland is well equipped to fulfil whatever the Government may demand? Will he also bear in mind the unemployment position in Scotland, as he was asked to do by my hon. Friend the Member for Kilmarnock (Mr. Ross)?

Mr. Ramsden

The hon. Gentleman is interested in ammunition, and I can tell him that Scotland has capacity for the manufacture of ammunition propellants. All our immediate requirements for propellants are supplied from Scotland. Most of the capacity for supplying the remainder of our ammunition requirements is concentrated in the Royal Ordnance factories in England and Wales.

Mrs. Cullen

Where it is possible to do so, will the hon. Gentleman ensure that orders and contracts are placed in Scotland where there are both the facilities and the labour to fulfil them?

Mr. Ramsden

Yes, Sir. So far as Army clothing is concerned, and that is what interests the hon. Lady, although most of the capacity is in London, Lancashire and Yorkshire, such Scottish firms as supply the type of goods the Army require get the opportunity to tender. And, of course, in Scotland they make the kilt.

Mrs. Cullen

Will the hon. Gentleman remember that during war time khaki was provided and that we can do the same in peace time?

Mr. McInnes

In reference to Question No. 28, may I ask whether the hon. Gentleman is aware that the current estimate is approximately £1 million less than for the previous year? As this relates to rolling stock and is therefore a vital matter to Glasgow, for example, can he give any explanation of the large decrease?

Mr. Ramsden

Not without notice.

Mr. Rankin

Will the hon. Gentleman keep in mind that, when it comes to raising money, Scotland contributes about one-ninth of the total income which the Government spend? And when it comes to spending money, will he try to preserve that proprotion? In dealing with the £24 million for technical stores, will the hon. Gentleman see that Scotland gets her just share?

Mr. Ramsden

I think that the tenor of my Answers shows that we do try to see that Scotland gets her fair share. May I remind the hon. Gentleman that in 1960–61, in relation to the type of stores in which he is interested, substantial orders were secured by Scottish firms for Twynham hutting, about 40 per cent. of engineer stores expenditure being incurred in Scotland.

Mr. Lawson

Will the hon. Gentleman explain why he is unable to give us this information now, whereas on a previous occasion, at about the same time of year, he was able to give the information? Does not that suggest that the position regarding the amount of money spent in Scotland is so bad that the Government are not prepared to reveal it? Will the hon. Gentleman bear in mind that we are not interested merely in Scotland getting a share, but that we believe the Government ought deliberately to spend in these areas of high unemployment in order that the Government policy of developing these areas may be carried out? Will he keep that point in mind?

Mr. Ramsden

Replying to the first part of the supplementary question, I can assure the hon. Member that the reason I gave is the one that stands, that at this stage of the year, before tendering is further advanced, we cannot give the information being sought. In reply to the second part of the supplementary question, about whether we may relax Government policy about where money is spent, that is a general question outside the responsibility of my right hon. Friend. Perhaps the hon. Gentleman would pursue it with the President of the Board of Trade.

Mr. Lawson

May I say to the hon. Gentleman's right hon. Friend, who is sitting beside him, that if he keeps in mind the point I have made about the Government deliberately spending in these areas, a great deal can be done to carry out the Government's policy for the better distribution of industry? Will he put that point occasionally to his colleagues in the Cabinet?