HC Deb 22 May 1962 vol 660 cc213-5
31. Mr. Callaghan

asked the Chancellor of the Exchequer what are his intentions with regard to the sale of Richard Thomas and Baldwins' assets.

The Chancellor of the Exchequer (Mr. Selwyn Lloyd)

I have nothing to add to previous statements on this matter.

Mr. Callaghan

To which of the previous statements has the Chancellor nothing to add? Is it the statement that the assets will be sold before the General Election, which was made by one Minister, or the statement that they will not be sold before the General Election, which was the statement made by Lord Mills?

Mr. Lloyd

Perhaps the hon. Gentleman will read what I said on 27th October, 1960. That, in particular, is one of the statements to which I have nothing to add.

Mr. Callaghan

Is not the right hon. and learned Gentleman aware that there is a great deal of concern about the future of this enterprise in South Wales? Can he be clear about this? Is it the Government's intention to sell the assets of Richard Thomas and Baldwins Ltd. before the next General Election or at some time in the immediate future? People have a right to know the Government's plans on a matter of this sort.

Mr. Lloyd

With regard to the relationship of this sale with the next General Election, there is plenty of time. I understand that there need not be an election until October,1964. We have said again and again that our intention is that the concern should be de-vested, but when depends on the circumstances. I think that the important factor is to judge the time at which a fair price can be obtained, and that depends on the development plan, which is not yet completed.

Mr. M. Foot

Does the right hon. and learned Gentleman really think it fair to treat a great steel firm in this fashion? If it was proposed to nationalise a firm, would the Government leave it in doubt what was to happen? Surely the right hon. and learned Gentleman must be aware that his statement to which he referred the House was flatly contradicted by Lord Mills last year. Is it not a fact that the real reason why the Government will not state their intentions in public as Lord Mills stated them in private is that they are in a blue funk about what the hon. Member for Kidderminster (Mr. Nabarro) might say about them.

Mr. Lloyd

I do not accept what the hon. Gentleman says, nor do I understand his argument about uncertainty. Most of British industry, which is now in private hands, would be in a state of uncertainty in the dreadful event of the Socialist Party returning to power.

Mr. Peyton

Does not my right hon. and learned Friend agree that if Lord Mills said in private what the hon. Member for Ebbw Vale (Mr. M. Foot) thinks he said, then the hon. Gentleman should be the first to give three cheers for Lord Mills?

Mr. Lloyd

I understand that there was an Adjournment debate on that topic. I stick by what I said in October, 1960.

Mr. Jay

Is the Chancellor of the Exchequer aware that, under his policy, steel shares have fallen so much that most steel company shareholders are hoping for renationalisation?

Mr. Lloyd

That is the sort of very specious statement which the right hon. Gentleman would make.

Mr. Jack Jones

Is the Chancellor aware that this very well-run, nationally-owned concern is a revenue-earning concern? In view of the fact that he is putting 15 per cent. on kiddies' sweets to get money, he had better leave this concern alone so that he obtains the revenue which he wants for the nation from such a flourishing concern.

Mr. Lloyd

The fact is that the development programme has not yet reached maturity and the extent to which it is a flourishing concern cannot yet be determined.

Mr. Callaghan

As a result of these exchanges, are we to take it that the Government do not know when they will sell this company, that they still intend to sell it but are unable to reassure people working in the industry about their future, and that the only thing they are determined to do is to ensure that the £80 million of profit made for the nation shall be dissipated to the steel masters?

Mr. Lloyd

I do not accept at all what the hon. Member has said. We have stated our policy again and again. That policy has been confirmed by the electors again and again and we shall judge the time at which a fair price can be obtained.