PRIME MINISTER, PRESIDENT KENNEDY AND PRIME MINISTER OF CANADA (TALKS) (Hansard, 3 May 1962)

§ Q1. Mr. Emrys Hughes
asked the Prime Minister if he will make a statement on his recent official talks with President Kennedy.

§ Q2. Mr. A. Henderson
asked the Prime Minister if he will make a statement on his recent discussions with President Kennedy.

§ Q4. Dame Irene Ward
asked the Prime Minister whether he received satisfactory assurances from President Kennedy on the subject of flag discrimination against British shipping during his recent talks with the President.

§ Q6. Mr. Frank Allaun
asked the Prime Minister if he will make a statement on his discussion with President Kennedy about nuclear test explosions and Germany.

§ Q7 Mr. Hector Hughes
asked the Prime Minister (1) if he will make a statement on his conversations last week with Mr. Kennedy, indicating the topics discussed, the agreements reached and the matters upon which they failed to agree;

§ Q9. Mr. Rankin
asked the Prime Minister if he will make a statement on his recent talks with the Prime Minister of Canada.

§ The Prime Minister (Mr. Harold Macmillan)
I would refer hon. Members to the joint communiqués issued in Washington and Ottawa following the talks. I am arranging for these to be circulated in the OFFICIAL REPORT. Since the talks were confidential I do not think it would be right for me to enter into particulars in more detail than the communiqués provide, but the House will have seen that my discussions with the President and the Prime Minister of Canada covered a wide range of topics.

§ Mr. Emrys Hughes
Is the Prime Minister aware that these communiqués consisted of nebulous platitudes Which did not satisfy anyone aware of the danger resulting from these tests at Christmas Island? Can he tell us whether at any time he tried to impress on President Kennedy the danger of these tests and the feeling throughout the world against them? Can he also tell us Whether he tried to gat a summit meeting and whether President Kennedy refused to agree to it?

§ The Prime Minister
With regard to the first part of the supplementary question as I told the House immediately before we rose for the Easter Recess, I did not think it right that I should press President Kennedy to defer the present series of nuclear tests in the face of the refusal of the Soviet Government to accept even the principle of international verification. At the same time, we made it clear that we shall continue to work for progress towards disarmament, including agreement for the ending of nuclear tests. With regard to the second part of the supplementary question, I think that was dealt with in the communiqué. I have often said in this House, and I repeat it, that meetings, Whether between two, three or four Heads of Governments can be useful. Other meetings can be useful. I do not rule out anything, but I do not wish at this moment to make any more precise statement.

§ Mr. A. Henderson
In view of the relative unimportance of underground tests, why cannot the United States Government and the British Government renew their September offer to ban all atmospheric tests provided that the Soviet Government agree to international on-site verification in case of doubt or dispute?

§ The Prime Minister
In the first place, we made that offer. It was very strongly rejected by the Soviet Government, who continued their tests. On the second part, even with this there is the point that they may refuse any form of verification. We shall not, however, abandon hope, and we shall make every effort to see whether, in due course, we can reach an agreement for the abandoning of all tests.

§ Dame Irene Ward
In congratulating my right hon. Friend on the success of his journey to the United States and thanking him particularly for having raised the question of shipping problems, which will be very welcome to the shipping and shipbuilding areas of this country, may I ask him whether, as he was reported to have said something to President Kennedy on this matter, he thinks President Kennedy could deal with the shipping lobby in the way that he has dealt with the steel barons?

§ The Prime Minister
I think that part of the supplementary question should be referred to the President. With regard to the remainder we had a discussion and I made it clear, and I propose to follow it up, that I would continue to press these matters in further detail.

§ Mr. Allaun
Regarding the forthcoming 500-milas-high test, did the Prime Minister ask Mr. Kennedy if the American scientists were quite certain of the effects and that there would be no unforeseen consequences? Secondly, were the Prime Minister and Mr. Kennedy aware that as these thirty tests continue throughout the summer, there will be increasing protests against them in this country and throughout the world?

§ The Prime Minister
This is, of course, a complicated scientific problem. In regard to fall-out, from the highest altitudes the fall-out will be correspondingly reduced. Nor is this an altogether novel test. High altitude nuclear tests were carried out by the United States in 1958. This test is being mounted from Johnson Island, in American territory.

§ Mr. Rankin
In the conversations with the Canadian Prime Minister, did Mr. Diefenbaker impress upon the Prime Minister the serious losses that would accrue to Canadian exports in the event of our entry into the Common Market? I believe that they are expected to diminish by 13 or 14 per cent. Does the right hon. Gentleman regard it as good business to prejudice our huge Commonwealth trade in favour of problematical gains in Europe which would not make up for our Commonwealth losses?

§ The Prime Minister
All these questions were fully discussed between us and have been discussed on many occasions. 1202 I repeated what has been said publicly—the position of Her Majesty's Government in this matter.

§ Mr. Biggs-Davison
Without asking the Prime Minister to disclose any confidential discussions, may I ask whether he is aware that many people in this country and throughout the Commonwealth hope that, while we strive for European unity, it was made quite clear to President Kennedy that we are not ready to surrender the preferential arrangements with our Commonwealth partners?

§ The Prime Minister
Our position with regard to this matter was made quite clear to the United States Government and the undertakings which we have already made in public were repeated by me and impressed upon the President. There are, of course, many aspects of this matter, but the question has been explained over and over again. What we have surely now to do is to conduct the negotiation and then reach a judgment.

§ Mr. Gaitskell
May I ask the Prime Minister two questions about the nuclear test issue? Can he say whether, in his discussions with President Kennedy, there was any idea of a fresh approach to the Russians or that any new proposals would be put forward by the West in the talks which, I am glad to see, are to continue? Secondly, has the Prime Minister seen the interchange which took place at Question Time on Tuesday between the Home Secretary and various hon. Members? Can he throw rather more light on the question of fall-out from the American tests? The Home Secretary referred to the Prime Minister a number of Questions and the House would be glad to have an answer to them.

§ The Prime Minister
With regard to the second part of that supplementary question, perhaps the right hon. Gentleman would excuse me. I got back rather late, only just in time for the Cabinet. If I could have a detailed Question on that, I will make sure that these scientific matters are looked at carefully before answering. With regard to the first part of the supplementary question, we hope to continue negotiations in Geneva. The President and I 1203 will make every effort to reach a satisfactory conclusion. As for the future, I know that he and I are both determined to do everything we can in due course to bring this to an end.

§ Mr. Gaitskell
One further supplementary question arises from that second point. What is the attitude of the British and American Governments now towards the proposals put forward by the neutrals? Are they completely in abeyance, or will they be further discussed at Geneva?

§ The Prime Minister
I understand that they are being, or will be, discussed at Geneva. As, however, the right hon. Gentleman knows, there is up to now the very difficult question of whatever may be the instruments to make what I call the prima facie case, what is to be the method of verification on the spot.

§ Mr. Grimond
The Prime Minister has been reported as saying in Canada something to the effect that the Six should make it easier for us to enter the Common Market. As this was a public statement, can the Prime Minister tell us a little more of what was in his mind when he said it?

§ The Prime Minister
I said that I thought a very great responsibility lay upon the British Government. I thought that an equal responsibility laid upon the Governments of the European countries and I hoped that they would do everything they could to ease our position. I had in mind our commitments, already well known, to the Commonwealth and our agricultural problems at home. The point I was trying to make was that, whatever the final conclusion, for good of for ill, it would have a great effect upon the future both of Europe, the Commonwealth and, indeed, the whole free world.

§ Mr. Shinwell
When the Prime Minister suggested that the Six should make it easier for us, did he mean that we had run up against difficulties in the negotiations? If so, what are those difficulties?

§ The Prime Minister
No, Sir. I was making an appeal in public which I would be glad to make in private and have made over the years to the Heads of these Governments. I am sure that 1204 they will respond to it and in the negotiations will see our difficulties as well as that we are trying to meet their problems. If the negotiation is to succeed, it must be entered into in that spirit, and I believe that it will.